IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE
SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND
STATE OF
)
VS. )
CC92-1893
)
BETTY WOODS
)
Defendant. )
* * * * * * * * *
VOLUME III
TESTIMONY OF:
JENNIFER WILSON (Librarian Con’t) .
. . . . . .PAGE 733
KEITH
TUCKER (Security Officer–
ROBERT
HAWKINS (Security Officer-
DAVID
STORK (Desk Clerk at
SHIRLEY
SMITH (Vincent Grocery
Store
Operator). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 806
LINDA
BUSH (Head Teller, 1st Bank of
Childersburg-Vincent).
. . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 817
JEAN
BAKER(Branch Manager, 1st Bank of
Childersburg-Vincent).
. . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 850
LINDA
VASCOCU (
Teacher-Vincent)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 867
MARTHA WALKER (Owner Bullet’s Video, Vincent). PAGE 890
MAVIS KENNEDY (Peggy Lowe’s Neighbor). . . . . PAGE 902
KELLIE
JORDAN (Manager-Camelot Music-
VINCE
CARUSO (Associate-Camelot Music-
RON
WHITE (Manager-Chick-Fil-A-
KAREN
JAMES (Employee-Kmart). . . . . . . . . .PAGE 944
GARY HOUCK (General Manager-Ramada Inn). . . . PAGE 958
JIM
GARRETT (Neighbor & Patient of
Dr.
Wilson). . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .PAGE 986
PETER
WILLIAM COULTER (Shoe Manager-
Yeilding’s Department Store-Huntsville) . . .
.PAGE 1000
JO
ANN BAIRD
Tanning
Salon-Huntsville). . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1012
DAVID
OLIVER (Custom Service Manager-
Parisian
Department Store-Huntsville) . . . . .PAGE 1023
JOANN
WILLIAMSON (Project Manager-
Design
Supply Inc-
DAVID
WILLIAMS (Clerk-Whitesport
Pharmacy-Huntsville).
. . . . . . . . .. . . . PAGE 1046
JUADINE
BROOKS (Assistant Manager-
The
Village Shoppe-Huntsville). . . . . . . . .PAGE 1055
SHELIA
IRBY (Testified she saw James
White
walking down
BELINDA
SCHUMANN (Dietician-Crestwood
Hospital-AA
Member). . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1116
PEGGY
BLACK (Wife of Police Officer/
Office
Manager for Tim Morgan Campaign). . . .PAGE
1125
JOEY
LUTTRELL (Assistant Trust Officer-
SouthTrust Bank of
Executor
of Dr. Wilson’s Will). . . . . . . . PAGE
1145
EUEL
DEAN CAGLE (Betty Wilson’s
Brother-in-Law).
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1170
Continued from Volume II Page 732
of work you do when you are
not in school?
A Yes, I do.
Q What is that?
A I work at the Huntsville Public Library.
Q How long have you been there at the
library?
A A year and a
half.
Q Were you working there
during May of last year as part of that year and a half?
A Yes.
Q Jennifer, you and I have met and spoken
once before; is that right?
A Yes, we have.
Q Do you mind if I call you Jennifer?
A No.
Q You don't mind?
A No, sir.
Q Do you know Mrs. Betty Wilson here?
A Yes, I do.
Q Was she a customer of yours there at the
library?
A Once.
Q I'm sorry?
A I can only recall one time.
Page 733
Q Only one time. Did you know Mrs. Wilson
through some activity other than the library?
A Yes, I did.
Q Back before May of 1992, you did?
A Yes.
Q Is that right?
A Yes.
Q How long had you known Mrs. Wilson?
A Since the first of the year.
Q Of ‘92?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
Now, did Mrs. Wilson ever come into the Huntsville Library while you
were working there?
A Yes, she did.
Q And why was she there or what did she do
there?
A She checked out a book.
Q And was anyone with her?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember who that was?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who was it?
A Her husband.
Page 734
Q And who was that?
A Jack Wilson.
Q Did you know him?
A Yes, I did.
Q How did you know him?
A I believe my father went to him. He was his optometrist.
So
lie was your father's doctor, then, or his eye doctor, I guess you might say?
A Yes.
Q All right. Was he a customer at the
library, also, or did you just know him because he was a doctor?
A I knew him because he was a doctor.
Q What did Mrs. Wilson do there, by the way?
A She checked out a book.
Q When was that?
A When was that?
Q Yes.
A I don't recall.
Q Well, do you remember talking to me over at
the Huntsville Police Department back in, oh, seems like a year ago but I guess
it was two or
Page 735
three weeks ago?
A Yes, I do.
Q Let me let you look at this book,
Jennifer. Would you like to
look at it? This is already in evidence,
by the way, as State's Exhibit No. 8 -- or excuse me -- 8. The jury has already seen it, it's been
passed around, that is. Do you
recognize that book?
A No.
Q Not at all?
A I recognize it from the picture you
showed me, but other than that, I don't.
Q Well, did you check out a book to Mrs.
Wilson that night?
A Yes, I did.
Q What kind of book was it?
A A book on
Sleeping Beauty.
Q Okay.
Is this the book or a copy of the book?
A I don't remember what the book looked like.
Q You don't remember what the book looked
like?
A No.
Page 736
Q What did you and Mrs. Wilson talk about?
Did she ask you -- as a matter of fact, did she ask you about a book?
A Yes, she did.
Q What did she ask you about?
A She asked me if I would help her locate a book
on the ballet Sleeping Beauty.
Q On the ballet Sleeping Beauty. Did she tell you why she was interested in
that?
A Yes, sir.
Q Why was that?
A She was planning to see the ballet Sleeping
Beauty and she wanted additional information on it.
Q And did you know about this book?
A No, sir.
Q Did you have to look up a card or look it
up on a computer?
A Yes.
Q How did you do that?
A I did a subject search through our
computer.
Q Looking for what?
A Looking for the subject Sleeping Beauty.
Page 737
Q Okay. And what book did you find for
her? Was there more than one
book?
A I don't recall.
Q You don't recall?
A No.
Q Did you go and
get a book for her?
A Yes, I did.
Q All
right. And we showed you a
photograph, I think, a
couple of weeks ago of that book, did we not?
A Yes.
Q And wasn't it the title of the book which
you got for her?
A Yes.
Q Sleeping Beauty and the Firebird?
A Correct.
Q All right.
Now, you tried to -- I think you had to determine whether or not you
were -- what day you were working, did you not?
A Yes.
Q On the day to find out what day that was.
Did you go back and make a check to try to help find out what day it was you
checked this book out?
A Yes, sir.
Page 738
Q What day was that?
A I don't remember.
Q You don't remember?
A No.
Q How long ago was it that you went back
and checked?
A Over three weeks ago.
Q Let me show you -- this is into evidence.
Let me show you this card that's in the book. What is that, do you know?
A It's a date due card.
Q What is the date that's the last date on
there?
A May 20th.
Q Didn't we talk about that -- or did we talk
about that when we asked about when the book would have been checked out?
A Yes.
Q And how long are books checked out for?
A 14 days.
Q 14 days.
So what would this indicate, then, with a date due of
A It would have been checked out May 6th.
Page 739
Q May 6th.
Did you work on May 6th?
A I'm not sure. I think it was the first Tuesday or
something. I work every Tuesday and
Thursday, so if it was Tuesday or Thursday I was there.
Q Okay.
Did you have any other discussion with Mrs.
A No.
Q Would it be your testimony that this is
either the book that you checked out to her or a copy of it? Let me let you
look at it. You have been there a
year and a half, this is a book from the Huntsville Public Library, is it not?
A Yes, it is, but we check out 4,000 books a
day.
Q 4,000 books a day. But how many books about
fairy tales, the Sleeping Beauty and the Firebird, have you acquired for Mrs.
Wilson ever?
A Only one.
MR. COOK: I apologize to counsel and I apologize to
the Court. We stipulate and agree that
she checked out the book. If that's
what's in issue, why, it's agreed that she did.
MR. FRY: Thank you, Mr. Cook. The
Page 740
stipulation is this is the book she checked out?
MR. COOK: Absolutely.
MR. FRY: Thank you very
much, Ms. Wilson. Have a nice trip back
to
THE
COURT: Hold on. They may have some
questions.
MR.
HOOPER: I may have one or two questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. HOOPER:
Q Ms. Wilson, how are you doing?
A Fine.
Q I believe I met you a couple of weeks ago;
is that correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q Okay.
Was that sometime after you had had a conversation with Mr. Fry?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Okay.
And after that conversation did you report or have an occasion to talk
to some members of the library about the way you were treated over there?
A Yes, I did.
Q Mr. Fry didn't ask you about this book
Page 741
and whether or not it was
renewed; is that correct?
A He asked me if it could have been
renewed.
Q I mean, today he
has not asked you about
it at all, has he?
A No, he hasn't.
Q Now, this book was renewed on Saturday, May
the 23rd?
A Correct.
Q Who renewed that book?
A I did.
Q Okay. Mrs. Wilson, had she ever attended
anything or did anything over at your high school?
A Yes, she had.
Q Was it a program?
A Yes, there was.
Q What kind of program was it?
A It was a drug awareness day that I
organized.
Q Okay.
And she was a speaker?
A Yes.
Q What was the topic?
A She came as a spokesperson for Alcoholics
Anonymous and talked to psychology
classes on the
Page 742
aspects of drug abuse.
Q And were you impressed with her talk?
A Yes .
Q When did you find out about Dr. Jack
Wilson's death?
A On the day after it happened, that
Saturday.
Q I guess it was upsetting to you; is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you send a card or anything to the
family?
A Yes, I did.
Q Why did you re-check out or renew the book?
A I didn't have my address book with me at
the library, and I wanted to send her a card on my break. So I looked up her card to get her address,
and I saw she had a book out and thought that perhaps her library books
wouldn't be the first thing on her mind.
So I went ahead and renewed her book.
Q Okay.
Back when Mr. Fry was talking to you or the police were talking to you,
did they ask
Page 743
you about whether or not
Mrs. Wilson had given you a little calling card or something of that nature?
A I think I brought that up.
Q Okay.
And could you find it?
A No.
Q And did he threaten you to search your
house, if you didn't find it, with a
search
warrant.
A Yes, he did.
MR. HOOPER: Your witness.
MR.
FRY: I was through with the witness.
Thank you.
THE COURT: What's that?
MR. FRY: No more questions.
THE
COURT: You may be excused, please,
ma'am. Thank you.
KEITH
TUCKER
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY
MR. FRY:
Q If you will, tell the jury who you are,
please.
A Keith Tucker.
Page 744
Q And, Keith, where are you from?
A I'm from Guntersville.
Q From Guntersville. What do you do in
Guntersville?
A At this time I work for Guntersville Sheet
Metal where I'm a welder.
Q Are you married?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Kids?
A Not yet.
We have one on the way.
Q Got one on the way?
A Yes, sir.
Q How soon on the way?
A In about six months.
Q All right. Where were you working back in May of last year?
A I was a security officer at
Q A security officer?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did that job involve?
A Okay.
I work at the front gate, which involved checking in all vehicles and
personnel that entered the park, and registering in the
Page 745
guests that came in after
normal park hours.
Q What kind of state park is that? What is
there at
A Well, they have a lodge motel, there is a
beach, multiple activities, you know, as far as fishing or hiking. It's basically a state-owned resort.
Q And is that located near Guntersville?
A Yes, sir, it's about five miles out of
Guntersville.
Q Is that in
A Yes, sir.
Q On the river?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, is there a main road coming from
town or coming from the
direction of Guntersville that you turn off of to get to the park, in general?
A Yes, sir.
Once -- well, there is Highway 227, which runs directly into
Guntersville and it leads straight out to the park.
Q Where is the gate that you spoke of
located?
A Okay.
It's about 150 feet off of Highway 227 going towards the entrance at the
park.
Page 746
Q Can you get into any part of the park
itself without going by the front gate?
A There is one other entrance which is
constantly fenced off, has a gate and it's constantly locked. So basically that would be the only entrance
in other than on the water.
Q I guess when we say "entrance,"
we are actually talking about a roadway?
A Yes, sir, that would be the only
entrance.
Q There is not a big fence around the whole
park, in other words?
A No, sir.
Q Is this the gate where you were working
back in May of last year?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, how long had you been working there?
A At that time I would say about four
months.
Q Were you familiar with the park and the
area around the park?
A Yes, sir.
I grew up there. I live very near
by.
Q Was there another fellow working security
Page 747
that night, also?
A Yes, sir, altogether there was about four
of us.
Q Who were the other folks?
A Okay. There was Robert Hawkins, he is
another security officer. Benny Bobo, which is a conservation officer. And I can't think of the
other guy’s name right off, another security
officer at the lodge itself.
Q Mr. Hawkins here today?
A Yes, sir, he is.
Q All right.
Now, how far is it from the front gate of
the lodge?
A Roughly three and a half miles.
Q Three and a half miles?
A Yes, sir.
Q What kind of road is that between the
gate and the lodge?
A From the gate , the first half mile or so
is
a nicely paved road, then it Y's off and starts
up the mountain, which is a
paved gravel road.
Q Okay. And
does that go all the way to the
lodge then?
Page 748
A Yes, it does.
Q Does it go up a mountain, did you say?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is it a twisting, curving road?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are there some other things there inside
the park, also, and not just the lodge?
A Right.
As I said, there's multiple activities in there. There's campgrounds, there's the motel built
onto the lodge, there is challets, cabins, there's a
beach and a couple of boat ramps, quite a few different things.
Q Now, do you remember seeing or hearing
about the murder of the doctor over in
A Yes, sir.
Q Sometime after that were you contacted by
some policeman in reference to that case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you remember when that would have
been?
A I'm going to say somewhere around maybe
the 22nd or 23rd.
Q The murder, the crime or when you were
Page 749
contacted?
A When I was contacted, I can't say for
sure. A couple of weeks afterwards.
Q A couple of weeks after it happened?
A Right.
Q All right. And who contacted you, do you remember that?
A Officer Nunley
and Officer Brantley.
Q Brantley?
A Yes, sir.
Q The fellow behind me?
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you see him?
A Yes, sir.
Q They were from the Huntsville Police
Department; is that right?
A Right.
Q Where did you talk to them; where were
you when they talked to you?
A Okay.
I was at the main park office, which is directly on Highway 227.
Q Did you give them a statement?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you remember back a couple of weeks
Page 750
before then,, was there a
time when a gentleman -- well , what did they ask you about, let me ask you
that.
A Basically what had happened on the night,
you know, that this had taken place, what I remembered about it, the
description I could give
on the vehicles or the
people.
Q Did an event occur there at the gate the
same night?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
A What had happened on that, Mr. White had
approached the gate after normal closing hours, which would be
the lodge.
Q And when would that have been in relation
to the murder?
A There was just a few days in between, I
couldn't give you a specific date on that.
Q Okay. But before the murder?
A Right.
Q All right. What happened?
A Okay. I advised him that the park was
closed to non-registered guests and that he would
Page 751
not be allowed in. At this time I didn't know his name. He told me who he was, who he needed to see,
and I believe he offered me his drivers license to hold if I would let him to
in and pick up -- to
begin with, I think he
needed to pick up a package.
Q All right.
A And I explained to him that --
reiterated again on my
procedures and why I
couldn't let him in.
And he said he had driven a pretty long distance and that he actually needed to pick up a
book. He would be in there just a few
minutes and come back out.
Q So did you let him in?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Do you remember what kind of vehicle he was
in, Mr. Tucker?
A Okay.
He was in a dark-colored pickup truck,
probably four-wheel drive, just from looking at it.
Q Do you remember anything else about the
truck?
A It had chrome wheels on it and the left
quarter panel or the driver's side quarter panel
was a different color than
the rest of the truck.
Page 752
Q Let me let you look at what's been marked
for identification as State's Exhibit No. P-58 and let you look at that
picture, Mr. Tucker.
A Yes, sir, that's the truck he was in.
Q Does that look like the truck he was in?
A Yes , sir.
Q You described a pickup with a quarter panel
damaged or painted and did you mention the wheel covers or the rims?
A Yes, sir, chrome wheels.
MR.
FRY: We move this into evidence, State's Exhibit No. P-58 -- excuse me, that's
P-59.
THE COURT: It's admitted.
Q Well, what did he do?
A He said that it was important that he get
in touch with Mrs. Wilson and asked
about his options, and basically the only option I could give him would be to
go to a pay phone and contact her at the lodge.
Q Was there a pay phone nearby?
A There was a pay phone about two miles
away at another store, there
was a pay phone outside.
Q Did you tell him where that pay phone
Page 753
was?
A Yes
sir.
Q Did he leave?
A Yes
sir.
Q How long -- well, did he come back?
A Yes, sir, he did.
Q How long was he gone?
A Approximately 15, maybe 20 minutes.
Q What-happened when he got back?
A Okay.
He came back, he again drove up to the guard shack at the gate, he advised me that he had
spoken with Mr. Stork, which is the dispatcher at the lodge or was at that
time, and that Mrs. Wilson or someone would be bringing the book down
to him. I advised him, you know, if he wanted to wait
that was up to him, that he would have to wait outside the gate. So I had him to back out of the gate and he
parked on the side of the road next to the entrance.
Q All right.
So he was waiting?
A Yes, sir.
Q What happened after he pulled over to the
side and began waiting?
A Okay.
I can't remember exactly if I
Page 754
radioed the lodge or if they
radioed me first, to confirm that someone was coming down to meet with him.
Q So you were notified someone was coming
down, anyway, one way or another?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did they come down?
A Yes, sir, they did.
Q How long did that take, in your best
judgment?
A Just a few minutes, maybe another 15 or
20 minutes.
Q And were you there when that person
arrived?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q Who was it?
A It was Robert Hawkins.
Q What happened when Mr. Hawkins got there?
A He pulled up to the guard shack, pointed
towards the vehicle sitting
outside the gate, and asked if that was the gentleman he was supposed to
see. I advised him it was, and he
pulled on over to Mr. White's truck. And
at that point I was tied up with a couple of other vehicles, so that's
Page 755
basically
Q Did you hear or see Mr. White or this
gentleman, who was getting the book, say or do anything after that?
A I didn't hear any of the conversation. I believe I saw him, you know, when he
handed Mr.
White the book. Like. I
said, I was tied up with a couple of other vehicles, in the process of
registering them into the park.
Q And how do you know this was a Mr. White?
A Okay. There, again, when the original
time he came down there and
was trying to enter the gate, he told me his name and offered me his drivers
license if I would let him in.
Q To let him in?
A Right.
Q Did you see him leave?
A I don't believe I did. I can't recall
for sure.
Q Were other people coming and going?
A Yes, sir, I had gotten busy again about
that time.
Q And you were letting some people in; is
that right, if they were guests? Is that what you
Page 756
said a moment ago?
A Yes. Right.
Q Turning other people away?
A Right.
A registered guest could come and go as they pleased, they had to show
proof that they were registered, such as a room key, if they were staying at
the lodge or motel, or campground pass,
if they were staying at the
campground.
Q Is it your, testimony you saw Mr. White taking
something that looked like a book?
A Yes, sir.
MR.
FRY: Answer whatever questions these gentlemen have, if you can.
MR.
HOOPER: I would like to see his
statement.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. HOOPER:
Q Mr. Tucker, did you give the police a written
statement?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
MR.
HOOPER: Have you got it?
MR. FRY: You got it.
MR.
HOOPER: But I don't have it with me
Page 757
and I would Like to see his
original statement.
MR. FRY : I can show you my copy.
MR. HOOPER: That would
be fine.
(Brief pause.)
Q Mr. Tucker, at the time that you saw this
individual and he told you he was going up looking to get a book out of a car,
a BMW, did he not tell you the color of the car at that time?
A I can't say for sure, but I don't believe he
did.
Q Okay.
You don't recall telling the
police that he said it was a
gray BMW?
A Not right off. That may be possible, but right off, like I
said, I can't remember.
Q If you can, try to recall the
individual's demeanor
and manner; how was he
acting?
A He wasn't nervous or anything.
Q Well, what I'm getting at, was he kind of a
horse's patoot down there at the gate?
A Not actually. You know, he looked like
he was capable of it, I
would say that.
Q Okay.
A But he was -- for me it was a typical
Page 758
night, someone coming in,
you know, with a new ploy just about every night, trying to get past me at the
gate.
Q Well, he sure wasn't trying to be
secretive, was he?
A Not particularly.
Q I believe you stated he even gave you his
license is that correct?
A He offered them to me.
Q Offered them to you?
A I did not accept them.
Q Okay.
I believe you stated that you told him where the nearest phone was; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And how far did you say it was?
A About two, two and a half miles.
Q Is that road -- does it have any lights
on
it?
A The highway itself?
Q Yes, sir.
A Very few.
Q Now, this is at a point in time when it's
night, it's dark; right?
A Right.
Page 759
Q And let's say from the gate up to the lodge,
there is no lighting on that road either, is there?
A Not past the gate, there is not.
Q Would you call the area between the lodge
and your gate a secluded area?
A Basically it would be.
Q How
would you describe the area between the gate,
where you are posted, and the phone booth that you directed him to?
A Well, from my gate to the other entrance,
which is about a mile, there is another street
light there. Then the main office is about a half a mile
past there, which is pretty well lit. From
that point on you are going
up another mountain which is -- you know, it would be another secluded area.
Q Do you travel that road very often?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Are there a number of places that cars could
pull over and people could meet on that secluded road?
A There is on the road itself . You really
can't leave the road.
Page 760
Q But there is a number of places on that
road; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is there anything to prevent a guest from
the lodge leaving the lodge and passing through the gate?
A No, sir.
Q And
if you are registered at the lodge, you
can pass through the gate and come back and get in, can you not?
A Yes, sir.
Q I believe you stated that when he first got
there or the first message you heard was that
the book would be brought
down by either the lady or a guard; right?
A Right.
Q And it was brought down by a guard?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have a subsequent occasion to
ever see this -- where is
the -- this vehicle that's identified as State's Exhibit P-59?
A I saw it again when the officers first came
to take my statement.
Q Okay. Mr. Tucker, I'll ask you to look
Page 761
at a statement I borrowed
from Mr. Fry. I'll ask
you to look at that, maybe
to refresh your recollection. Just kind of read through that statement.
(Brief
pause.)
A Okay.
Q Okay. So the first time you saw this
vehicle was what, May the 16th?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then I believe you told him that you
had another occasion to see it, did you not?
A Not the vehicle itself, a picture of it.
Q Oh, just a picture of it?
A Yes, sir.
Q When I look at your statement it said
down here, "The truck I
described on my first statement came in
the park about a week after this incident and it was from Blount.
A
Q "--
A Right. What I did on that, I had -- there
was another black truck had come in and I had gotten the two mixed up. I went back through my records
and
looked up the tag number, the name off of that
Page 762
vehicle.
Q Okay.
A So I could get the two straight.
Q So you are satisfied now it was not the
same vehicle?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you get close to this individual to determine whether or not he was under the influence of
any alcohol?
A I was standing within a couple of feet of
him. I don't believe he was.
Q Okay.
A If he was, you know, it was well masked.
Q What about his speech, anything particular
about his speech?
A Nothing more, I guess, than the local
drawl.
Q Did he ever get out of his vehicle?
A No, sir, he didn't.
Q So you just observed him in the vehicle;
is that correct?
A Right.
Q And what's the closest distance that you
got to him?
Page 763
A Like I said. about a couple of feet.
Q Okay.
MR.
HOOPER: No further questions.
MR.
FRY: Just a couple of other things. REDIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q You may have said it and I was going
through these documents, I hope I didn't miss it. About what time was it that
he actually came?
A Somewhere between
Q Somewhere between
A Yes, sir.
Q And what time on that night did you close
that gate; how long had it
been closed?
A It closed at
Q So it had already been closed since
A Right.
MR.
FRY: I believe that is all.
THE
COURT: Any more questions?
MR.
HOOPER: Just a minute.
(Brief
pause.)
MR.
HOOPER: No further questions.
Page 764
THE COURT: All right.
MR. FRY: That is all
we have. We would ask that the witness
--
THE
COURT: Mr. Tucker, you may be excused.
MR.
FRY: -- be excused? Yes, sir.
ROBERT HAWKINS
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Can you tell us who you are and what you
do, please, sir?
A My name is Robert Hawkins, I'm a security
officer.
Q And, Robert, where are you from?
A
Q Is that your home?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you grow up around there?
A More or less.
Q More or less?
A Yeah, there and
Q Are you married?
Page 765
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you have any kids?
A I've got two.
Q Two?
A Yes.
Q Back last spring, more particularly in May
of last year, where were you working?
A
Q What did you do there?
A I was a security officer.
Q What were your duties as a security
guard?
A We more or less kept patrol over the
park, buildings, parking
lot, whatever come up.
Q How long had you been there in May of
last year? As of May of last
year, how long had you been a security guard there?
A I believe just a little over a year.
Q Okay.
And did you work all over the
place or was there one
particular part of the park where you worked?
A More or less I patrolled -- or mine and
my partners, it consisted of
mainly the lodge, and we would change patrol and one would patrol
Page 766
outside, one-would patrol
inside.
Q Now, back last year, do you remember last
spring, did you see on the news or hear about the doctor over in
killed?
A I believe so.
Q Did you talk to the police about that after
it happened?
A Yeah. Two detectives, I believe, come over
to the state park and talked to us.
Q Okay. What did they talk to you about?
A They wanted us to identify some pictures,
if we had seen anybody at the lodge or had seen some people there, and they
showed us different pictures and asked us if we could pick out anybody we had
seen there and we did.
Q Pictures of a man or woman?
A Both.
Q Both.
Did you pick one out?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who was it; do you know?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who was the fellow?
A Which one you referring to, man or woman?
Page 767
Q The man.
A The man was James White.
Q James White. Now, how did you -- had you come into some contact with James White?
A Before this time?
Q Yes, sir.
A No, sir.
Q At the park?
A At the park, the only contact I had with
James White was to deliver him a book.
Q When was that? About what time was that? I
don't mean of the evening, but in relationship to when you heard about the
doctor being killed or the policeman coming to see you, either one, how long
had it been since you had seen James White?
A From the time I had seen the detectives,
I guess, a couple of weeks,
something like that, or a little longer.
Q Do you remember what night it was that
you saw him?
A I believe it was on a Saturday night.
Q All right.
Saturday night. Do you remember
anything about what was going on at the lodge that evening?
Page 768
A Yes, sir, we had an AA convention going
on.
Q Is that a big deal?
A Pretty much. They had pretty much consumed the whole
lodge.
Q How big is that lodge?
A Pretty big.
Q They consumed the whole lodge?
A Well, more or less. They take care of all the rooms and all. I don't mean eat it.
Q You might want to think about that.
A They pretty much fill it up.
Q
They drink a lot of coffee, I bet, don't they?
A I tell you.
Q About how many people do you think were
there at the lodge that night?
A Several hundred.
Q Several hundred?
A Yes.
Q Does that mean two to three hundred?
A I would guesstimate over 300, probably.
Q Over 300?
A Yeah.
Page 769
Q Now, where is the lodge in relationship
to the front gate there at
Guntersville?
A It's approximately two miles up on top of
the mountain.
Q And where were you working that evening?
A I was working --
Q Were you at the gate or all over the rest
of the place?
A That night I believe was my turn to work
inside the lodge.
Q Did you get a call or did you receive a
message to contact a guest there at the lodge that night?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who were you to contact?
A Betty Wilson.
Q Betty Wilson. Do you know what time it was when you got
that message?
A I think it was somewhere around
Q Okay.
A If I remember right.
Q
close?
Page 770
A Gate closes at
Q Was the gate closed when you got the
message?
A Yes, sir.
Q What was the message?
A The message we were to deliver was she
was to come to the front gate -- or excuse me, come
to the front desk, there was somebody waiting at
the front gate for her for a
book.
Q Okay. And you were looking for her, is that
what you said?
A Right.
Q Did you find her?
A She came to the desk. I had left word with
some of the groups and some of them
said they knew her, they would get word
to her. As I was coming up -- I didn't
know her at the time, but she was approaching the front desk, and I just kind
of, guess, eased on up there, and the front desk clerk, he told her the message
and told me I could deliver the book for her or she could, either one. And I was volunteered.
Q You were volunteered. What do you mean by that?
Page 771
A Yes, sir, I was told I could do it.
Q She was offered either to take it herself
or for you to take it?
A Yeah.
Q So who decided you would take it?
A Well, being nice about the matter, I
me and the front desk clerk decided I would take it.
Q You
and the desk clerk or the front desk
clerk decided you would take
it?
A More or less him.
Q Did you have other things to do at that
time, Robert?
A Well, we were busy patrolling on -- I
was, on the inside. The convention like it is, you have to watch
the people and make sure nobody is
hurt or falls off the
balcony out back. It has happened.
Q How about the parking lot, was the
parking lot full that night?
A Pretty much.
Q Pretty much. Okay.
Let me back up just a minute. You
say you heard -- did you hear Mrs. Wilson and the clerk have a conversation
about the book?
Page 772
A She told him -- or he told her that there
was somebody at the gate. I didn't
hear the name he spoke, that somebody was waiting for a book, and it went from
there.
Q So what did you do after -- by the way, what did she look like?
A Short hair, I guess brunette.
Q She a nice-looking lady?
A Pretty nice.
Q What did you do then with Mrs. Wilson,
did you go somewhere with her?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where did y’all go?
A We walked out the front door and went
from
there to the parking lot where she was
parked.
Q Now, tell the jury about this parking
lot. There is probably some of them, I'm going to
bet, that haven't been to Guntersville State Lodge, maybe they have, but what
kind of parking lot is out there? Is it
a big parking lot or little parking lot?
A Yes, sir, it's a fairly big parking lot.
You have got several sections of it, divided off by
a
median and stuff. Some of it kind of
hilly like.
Page 773
Q Robert, I'm going to ask you to do
something for me. Do you think you
could draw just a simple sketch of the
lodge and what the parking lot looked like on
this board for me?
A I'll try.
No promises.
Q Now, we are not going to grade you for
artwork, okay?
A All right.
Q First draw
the lodge and then we will let you draw -- and whenever you say
something,
remember this gentleman over
here behind me has got to hear you say it, okay?
A Okay.
Q Talk loud enough for him to hear you.
Just take your time, just
forget about the fact
that 300 people are watching
you.
A We have got a wing that comes here and
comes down thataway.
(Brief pause.)
A Okay.
You have a parking lot area --
Q I tell you what do, just finish your
drawing and then we are going to let you stand back and show the jury.
MR.
COOK: If Your Honor please, I'm
Page 775
Have you made a sketch of
the way the parking is there?
A Yes, sir, more or less.
Q Okay. Would you describe for the jury what
you have drawn there as it applies to the way your parking lot is.
A Okay.
This would be your lodge here and you have out-front parking for 15 minutes or less
right here. Security would park right
in here, but that night everybody parked there. You have got a parking lot on A Wing, goes
on around to right here. This here is just trees. Go around here, you have got a larger
parking lot here, and you go straight across and you have another parking
lot. It goes on around to B Wing,
there is a parking lot all the way around through here. Okay.
This right here comes into the parking area right here.
Q Robert, use your pointer while you have got
it there. Where were you and Mrs. Wilson when you first met up with her?
A Okay.
We was inside the lodge at the front desk.
Q At the front desk?
A Yes, sir.
Page 776
Q Just basically where is that on the
building part?
A You walk inside the lodge, you would walk
approximately across here to the other side, it would be somewhere around in
there.
Q You were instructed to go with her and to
take a book down to the gate; is that right?
A I was instructed to go with her to her car,
she was going to give me a book, then I would carry it to Mr. White.
Q Now, did you go to her car with her?
A Yes, sir.
Q How did you get down there? Did you have a
car or did you walk?
A We walked to the car.
Q How far was it from the building to the
car?
A Okay.
We left the lodge here and we come out down through there, and there is
some trees right in here going to this right here, and walked across there and
she was parked right there.
Q What kind of car was it, if you remember?
A I can't remember the make of the car. It
was a dark-colored car, is
all I can remember.
Page 777
Q All right.
Did you get the book out of the car?
A No, sir, she did.
Q She did?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was the car locked?
A No, sir.
Q She got the book out; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you see her do that?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was the book?
A In the back seat.
Q In the back seat?
A Yes, sir.
Q Your recollection is the car was not
locked?
A That's right.
Q What were you doing while she was in the
car?
A I was just down there waiting on her to get
the book out.
Q What did she do after she had gotten the
book out?
Page 778
A She got the book out and she handed it
to me, and I asked her if there was anything she wanted me to tell him, and she
said, "Yeah," said, "give
him the book and tell him to
have a good time, don't lose the book."
Q "Have a good time and don't lose
the book"'?
A Y e a h.
Q Now, were there other cars around her
car?
A Yes,
sir.
Q How many cars were in those parking lots
that night, in your best judgment, Robert?
A The parking lot that night was pretty
full to the extent where she
was parked at. The lower part down here, this part right here, was scarce, and
this area right here was a little
scarce right in here, but
the rest of it was pretty full.
Q And you said you had how many people in
the lodge?
A A couple of
hundred, around three or
more.
Q What did you do after you took the book?
Page 779
A Okay.
Q Did you have any more conversation with
Mrs. Wilson?
A No, sir.
After I got the book, we walked back to the front of the lodge, and she
went inside and I got in my truck and carried the book to the front gate.
Q
Okay. And you have sketched on your diagram a road going from the parking lots. And is that to scale? It's not, is it?
A Well --
Q How far is it from the parking lot down
to the gate, Robert?
A From the parking lot to the gate it's two
miles.
Q Did you drive down there?
A Yes, sir.
Q You all have a security vehicle?
A Yes, sir.
Q or a car?
A We have got a truck we drive.
Q Now, before this time, had you seen or
heard of the person that you were delivering the book to?
Page 780
A Before meeting her, no, sir.
Q So you went down to the front gate; is
that right?
A Yeah.
Q And what did you see or what happened
when you got down there?
A When I got to the front gate, I pulled on
the farside. --The gate would be on this side of the
road coming straight down, it would be right here.
Keith Tucker, he was busy
logging in a few cars, and Mr. White's vehicle was parked just outside the
gate a little further down.
Q What kind of vehicle was that?
A It was a pickup truck. Gray or
something, I can't remember
exactly. But he was parked there, and I
walked over and asked him if he was the fellow that was waiting on the book,
and he said, yeah, and he had driven a long way, driven
from
Q Did you give him the message from Mrs.
Wilson?
A Yeah.
Page 781
Q What did you tell him?
A I told him, "She said have a good night,
don't lose the book."
Q All right.
A He said, "Okay."
Q And he took off?
A Yes.
Q All right. What did you do after that,
go back to the lodge?
A Yes, sir. Resumed patrol after that.
MR. FRY: Robert, thank you. Thank you for your patience with
me. If you will, I'm sure
Mr. Hooper has some
questions for you.
MR.
HOOPER: Robert, I'll let you stand
up there.
MR.
FRY: Can I do one more thing,
Charlie?
MR.
HOOPER: Sure.
MR.
FRY: I got carried away with this
drawing. Take your seat, Robert. That is, I almost forgot the book.
Q (By Mr. Fry:) Let me show you what's
been marked as State's
Exhibit Number 8 and let you look at that, Robert. Don't read it, now, just look
Page 782
at it.
A Okay.
MR. HOOPER: Mr. Fry, we stipulated
that's the book.
MR.
FRY: Thanks. I want him to look at it.
Q Have you seen that before?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that the book Mrs. Wilson gave you?
A Yes.
Q And you gave to Mr. White?
A Yes.
MR. FRY: That's all. Thank you.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MR.
HOOPER: Robert, let me get you to walk back up here, and I'll just get up here
with you. Okay?
THE WITNESS: All right.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HOOPER:
Q Let me get your pool cue up here and, I
tell you what, if you will, stand right there and we won't block anybody. This
area right over here of what you have got drawn up, is this where there is
Page 783
some chalets?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. And is there a roadway that comes
near this parking area right over here?
A Yes, sir, the roadway would come up and --
Q I tell you what, just go ahead and mark
it.
A You have a roadway that would come on down,
sort of like this, and come up and kind of
make a little circle there
and goes on down a little further to the other chalets.
Q And, Robert, is there better-lit areas in
this parking lot than others? Are some better lit than other places?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
In fact, do you have pretty good lighting going up into the entrance
right in
through here?
A Pretty much.
Q Okay. Then you have some lighting to the
side; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q So where this car would be parked, would
Page 784
be about as well lit as you
are going to get; is
that right?
A Well, the lighting in the whole parking lot,
not trying to defer or nothing, but the best lighting would be right there in
front of the
lodge.
Q Yeah, but you can't park there?
A- No, sir, just 15 minutes.
Q Sure. So if you can't park there --
A You have got sparse lighting in through
here.
Q But this is about as well as you're going to
get?
A At the time.
Q All right.
Now, if you wanted to hide a car out there, are there some areas that
you can park and pretty well -- more secluded areas?
A Yes, sir, there are more secluded areas than
that.
Q All right.
I'll let you sit down.
A Appreciate it.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Robert, when you walked Mrs. Wilson out
there, did y’all chit-chat?
Page 785
A No, sir.
Q Well , did she seem to be all right?
A Yeah.
Q Kind of a friendly sort of a lady?
A Yeah, she seemed pretty nice.
Q In fact, did you walk her back up to the
lodge?
A Yes, sir.
Q In fact, did you take her back to the
front door there?
A I walked her back up to the entrance to
the lodge, not up to the front door, but from there she went on inside.
Q All right. And I had the pleasure of
visiting in your home here several weeks ago; is that right?
A Yeah.
Q And I believe I brought a video out to you
for you to look at; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q All right.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Robert, I'll let you look at what's been
marked as Defendant's Exhibit 23, and
has that got
Page 786
your initials somewhere?
A Yeah, right there.
Q And did you view that video?
A Yes, sir.
Q And did it fairly and accurately depict and
portray the lodge and the parking area that you have described up here?
A Yes, sir.
Q Does it also depict the area where Mrs.
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
MR.
HOOPER: Judge, we would offer Defendant's Exhibit 23.
MR.
FRY: No objection.
THE
COURT: 23 is admitted.
MR.
HOOPER: All right. We are going to have
to f
this machine.
Q Robert, if you would, I tell you what, I
would like for you -- let's let you stand over here, if you would, and we will
play this, and, if you would, describe exactly what we are seeing.
(Brief
pause.)
Page 787
MR. HOOPER: Judge, can we take a break? obviously I don't
have the thing ready to play.
(Brief pause.)
(Whereupon, Defendant's
Exhibit 23, the videotape, was played to the Court and jury as follows:)
A Okay. That would be the front of the lodge
there.
Q All right. Would this be where you would
have walked Mrs. Wilson?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
A We came out there. The entrance is on
the right. And we come down
those steps there.
Q I tell you what, Robert, if you want to
come over here beside it, and that way you can point, too.
A Okay.
Q All right.
A We walked basically out through here,
across down through this area right here.
Q All right.
(Brief pause.)
A We walked on the other side of this in
Page 788
between there.
(Brief pause.)
A And we walked through these trees right
here. Her car was parked approximately
where that one is right there.
Q Okay. Parked where?
A Approximately where this one is right
here.
Q Okay.
Now, this would also depict the lighting, would it not, the lighting up here?
A Yes, sir, you have got lights here, here,
and I think there is one light there, or is that a tree? It may be a light.
Q Okay.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Let me stop it right here, Robert.
A All right.
Q Try to -- I'll -- let's back it up just a
hair. All right. What is this area back down in here, please, sir?
A Okay.
This right down here basically is road or drive that comes around. There is a couple of parking places, you
can park down in there, it's not too well lit.
Page 789
Q Okay.
A You come on around here and this is
B Wing he is showing right
here, coming back again to the lodge.
Q All right.
Would this show actually where you
walked with Mrs. Wilson, this frame?
A Yes.
Q. All right.
A Well, basically you can see the front of
the lodge, see right there? And we came out, kind of walked down through here,
through these trees here.
Q Okay.
(Brief
pause.)
Q All right.
Let me -- all right. Is this the
drive, main drive, coming up?
A Yes, sir, this is the entrance to the
lodge itself.
Q And it's got lighting on it
A Yes, sir.
Q -- itself; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Okay. You had described earlier there
Page 790
was some 15-minute parking;
is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where would that be?
A Okay.
Your 15-minute parking is
basically here in front of the lodge. After that we can determine whether or not,
you know, a car has been there too long or whatever.
This
area right here, more or less, is
just for drop-off and pick-up.
Q Robert, what is this area right down
here?
A Okay. Right to the other side of this
median here would be security parking, where we
park. And just over the hill, down and below there
would be another parking lot.
Q Okay.
A Some of the employees use it, some of
them don't.
Q That wouldn't be visible from standing up
here; is that correct?
A Standing right there?
Q Yes, sir.
A It would be hard to see anything.
Q Okay.
Page 791
(Brief pause.)
Q All right. Tell us what we are looking
at right here, please, sir.
A Okay.
That looks like the parking lot just as you come off the front of the
lodge. In other words, if you were
coming from the lodge facing this way, you are coming off to your right.
Q All right. Is that -- would that be this area down in here?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
A That would be the area right there,
A Wing parking lot, which comes on around.
Q There are some suites at the lodge?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where would those be?
A Your suites would be on either corner of
the A Wing or B Wing.
Q Let's assume that Mrs. Wilson was staying
in the suite in A Wing. Where would
that be?
A Okay.
You have got your suites top and bottom
right here.
Q Okay.
That would be on the very corner;
is that correct?
Page 792
A Yes, sir.
Q And then off this parking lot, adjoining to
it, would be what?
A Okay.
Off this parking lot coming up behind
here?
Q Yes, sir.
A Okay.
You would have the area I drive to come up by this chalets.
Q And there is a drive?
A Yes, sir.
It comes way up. There is some
steps goes down right there.
Q Would that be a secluded area?
A Yes, sir, pretty much. In behind there.
Q Again, this is what, the top lot?
A Nearly.
You are right at the corner
there.
(Brief pause.)
Q Let me stop you. What is that, is that also maybe a better
view of the suites?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
This would be the end of the building?
A Yes, sir, that would be -- well, actually
your suites starts off that wing, then the top
Page 793
suite and bottom suite.
(Brief pause.)
Q All right. Would this -- can you tell me
what this is behind the trees in here?
A Okay.
You can barely see right there, a drive that comes up here and makes a
little circle right here and comes back and goes all the way down to the-o+-her
end of the chalets.
Q Okay.
(Brief
pause.)
Q And this view would be from where?
A You would be standing in the lower part
of the A Wing parking lot.
Q Okay.
Cars parked in this area right
here next to this
embankment, could it be viewed very easily from anyone standing up here near
the front of the lodge?
A If you are standing on back just a little
piece, it would be hard to see right down in there. If you walk on out on the
edge, you can see it, but it's kind of hard to see down through there.
(Brief pause.)
Q Okay, Robert, you can go back and have a
seat.
Page 794
(Whereupon, the playing of
the videotape, Defendant's Exhibit 23, was concluded, and the following
occurred: )
Q Robert, are you familiar with the drive
from the gate up to the
lodge?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that a fairly -- well, at night is it
fairly a secluded area, not
very well lit?
A From the drive all the way down to the
front gate?
Q Yes, sir.
A After you leave the front of the lodge
you have got no lights at
all.
Q Okay. Are you, also familiar with the
road between the gate and
going back towards Guntersville?
A Yes, sir.
Q How would you describe that road at
night?
A Very dangerous.
Q Okay. And is it a road that has a number
of places where a car could be concealed or people could meet?
A Yeah, there's places you could pull off.
Page 795
MR. HOOPER: No further questions. Thank
you.
THE
COURT: Any more questions?
MR.
FRY: No, Your Honor, no other
questions. And we would ask this witness be
excused, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Hawkins, you may be excused. Thank you,
sir.
MR.
FRY: Call David Stork.
DAVID
STORK,
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q If you will, please, sir, state to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury your name.
A Dave Stork.
Q And what do you do?
A I'm a desk clerk at
Q Mr. Stork, how long have you been there?
A Two years.
Q So you were working there in May of last
year; is that right?
Page 796
A Yes, sir.
Q You were employed by the park?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are you from the Guntersville area?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what exactly
do you do there?
A Check people in and out and just take
care of general stuff like
that.
Q What is your position now?
A Right now?
Q Yes.
A I'm reservations clerk.
Q Reservations clerk?
A Yeah.
Q Going back to May of last year, what were
you doing at that time?
A I was front desk clerk and back-up night
auditor.
Q Front desk clerk and --
A Back-up night auditor.
Q What does that mean?
A I worked night audit when the regular
auditor wasn't working.
Q What does a night auditor do?
Page 797
A Makes sure everything balances out for
the day and closes out the
day.
Q So you check up the -- count the money
and check the books up at
the end of the day?
A Yes, sir.
Q Handle daily
receipts?
A Right.
Q You
are not the bookkeeper?
A No.
Q Now, back in May of last year, you were
working there and working the front desk then; is that right?
A Right. I was working second shift.
Q Do you remember last spring learning of
the death of a doctor over in
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that, do you remember?
A It was a couple of weeks afterwards.
Q After you learned about the death?
A Yes.
Q Did you remember anything or were you
asked about someone coming to the lodge asking for
a book?
Page 798
A Well, somebody coming to the gate.
Q At the gate?
A Looking for Betty Wilson.
Q Do you remember that occurring?
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that that that
happened?
A It was approximately -- the guard called
me between
Q Okay.
So he told you that someone had tried to get in, he told them to go
somewhere else and call you?
A Right.
Q What was going on at the lodge that
weekend?
A It was a mountaintop roundup gathering.
Q And what is that?
A It's Alcoholics Anonymous group, they
come in and all get together every year.
Q It's an annual event?
A Right.
Q Is it well attended?
Page 799
A Yes.
Between three and four hundred people, usually.
Q Do you know how many people were there
that night?
A Just between three and four hundred. I
don't know exactly.
Q Were there people there at the lodge who
were not with the conference?
A No.
Q They have the whole place rented?
A Whole place.
Q Whole place?
A Yes.
Q Between three and four hundred people?
A Yes.
Q After getting the call from the guard, did
you receive a telephone call?
A Yes, sir.
Q And do you remember how long that would
have been after the guard had called?
A Approximately 30 to 40 minutes.
Q Okay. And do you know who called you?
A No, sir, he never did tell me his name.
Q Did the person identify themselves at
Page 800
a11 ?
A He said he was someone's brother.
Q Somebody's brother?
A Right.
Q Do you remember what name he said?
A No, all I can remember is the name started
with an R, but I couldn't remember the name for sure.
Q Started with an R?
A Right.
Q And what did this person tell you?
A He told me he come 200, 250 miles to pick
up the book and that he really needed to get the book. At which time I told him, you know, go back
to the front gate and I will take care of it
somehow.
Q All right. And did he tell you from whom he
was supposed to get the book?
A Betty Wilson.
Q Betty Wilson. Now, did you know Mrs.
Wilson?
A No. I hadn't seen her up to that point.
Q Did you know she was even a guest at the
lodge?
Page 801
A Well, yeah, she was on the board.
Q She was --
A As being there.
Q Being on the board is being checked in?
A Right.
Q So what did you do, Mr. Stork, after
having received this telephone call?
A Called up Robert Hawkins and Freeman Filmore, both security guards, and they made a search of
the lodge and functions trying to find
her and locate her so we
could let her know what was going on.
Q Searched the lodge and functions, did you
say?
A Yeah, the functions, they had a bunch of
different gatherings going on.
Q Even at
A Yeah.
Q How late do they go, do you know, or how
late did they go?
A
It was between
Q So you dispatched these guys to try to
find Mrs. Wilson?
Page 802
A Right.
Q Did they find her?
A No.
Q What happened?
A They come back to tell me they couldn't
locate her, they hit every place they could think she might be. And about three
minutes after that, while they were still standing at the counter, she come in the
front door, somebody told her we were looking for her.
Q Okay.
A At which time I told her, you know, what
was going on.
Q All right.
A Then she was going to take the book down
and I told Robert, you know, go out there and take the book down for her
instead of making the guest go down to the gate.
Q And did they do so?
A Yes.
Q Did she return sometime after that?
A Not that I can recollect.
Q Not that you recollect. You didn't see her?
Page 803
A No.
Q She very well could have, I take it?
A Yes, I was very busy getting the revenue
and stuff done.
Q When you gave her that message, Mr.
Stork, do you recall what,
if anything, Mrs. Wilson said to you?
A No.
Q Did she say anything at all?
A Well, she said she could take it down
herself, and I said, "Let him take it down for you rather than make you
drive it down there."
Q She said she could take it down herself?
A Yeah.
Q Then you instructed Robert to take it for
her; is that right?
A Correct.
MR.
FRY: Okay. David, I believe that is all. If Mr. Hooper has some questions, please try
to answer his questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HOOPER:
Q Mr. Stork, you gave her an opportunity to
have somebody else carry the book down?
Page 804
A Yes, sir.
Q And she acquiesced in allowing you to do
that?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall -- how many nights did Mrs.
Wilson stay there at the lodge that
weekend?
A Just one. She was booked for two but she
didn’t show up the first
night.
Q Just Saturday night?
A Right.
Q Can you tell the jury with respect to the
phone conversation you had with this individual looking for Mrs. Wilson, what was his manner on the phone?
A He was pretty upset. Most people get turned
away from the gate get pretty upset.
Q So he was certainly calling attention to
himself; is that correct?
A Well, not any more than anybody else that
gets turned away and calls up there.
MR.
HOOPER: Thank you, sir.
MR.
FRY: Thank you, Mr. Stork. And,
Your Honor, we would ask
that he be also excused.
THE
COURT: Mr. Stork may be excused.
Page 805
Thank you, sir.
Mr.
Fry, I don't suppose you have a short witness, do you?
MR.
FRY: Well, as a matter of fact --
THE
COURT: I don't mean five, ten.
MR. FRY: As
a matter of fact, Your
Honor, in all honesty, I do have a short witness
THE
COURT: If you do we will proceed.
MR.
FRY: I've got some long ones that I
guess I could we have got a short
one, yes, sir.
SHIRLEY SMITH,
being first duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Mrs. Smith, will you tell the ladies and
gentlemen of the jury here who you are, please, ma'am?
A Shirley Smith.
Q Mrs. Smith, where do you make your home?
@A At
Q Where is Cropwell?
A Between Vincent and
Page 806
Q Is. it kind of the outskirts of Vincent,
A It is.
Q You have come over here from Cropwell to
be with us today; is that
correct?
A Yes .
Q I believe you have a husband in poor health?
A Yes
Q I appreciate your being here all day
waiting for us. Now, what do you and your husband do?
A We operate a grocery store.
Q What is the name of that store?
A Smith's.
Q Just like your name?
A Right.
Q Where is that store located?
A In
Q How long have you all had it?
A He's been there about 15 years.
Q And what type of store is that?
A Sort of a neighborhood grocery store.
Q And it's located in downtown Vincent?
Page 807
A Yes, sir.
Q How big is Vincent?
A Not very large.
Q Not very large?
A No.
Q Bigger than Cropwell?
A Yeah, bigger than Cropwell.
Q Well-@, are there a couple of hundred
people or maybe a thousand people?
A I would say there is about a thousand.
Q About a thousand?
A Yeah.
Q Have you got a bank and a
A Right.
Q Now, do you know a fellow or do you know of
a fellow by the name of James White?
A I do.
Q How do you know Mr. White?
A As a customer in the store.
Q And he hasn't been in the store lately,
take it?
A No.
Q Back before May of last year, how long
Page 808
had you known him, in your best
judgment?
A I would say around a year.
Q About a year?
A About a year.
Q Was he a regular customer?
A Not -- he was about six months there.
Earlier, no, his wife usually did all of the shopping.
Q When he was with his wife, she did the
shopping? I'm sorry, you say his wife did the shopping?
A Yeah.
Q So you are saying there was a time that he
did come in?
A He did.
Q All right. And Mr. White ever have any
problem with checks at your store?
A Yes.
Q With
A Returned checks.
Returned
checks! personal checks?
A Right.
Q On who?
A On himself.
Page 809
Q On himself. Do you remember when that would have been?
A It was about two weeks earlier than the
22nd of May, roughly two weeks earlier.
Q Now, you and I have spoken about this
case before; is that right?
A We have.
Q Now, James White was a customer of yours?
A Yes.
Q At some point in time, did you learn
about the murder of Dr. Jack Wilson over in
A I did.
Q When did you f
A About Tuesday or Wednesday of the
following week.
Q Tuesday or Wednesday?
A Yes .
Q When had you seen James before then?
A On Friday night.
Q Friday night?
A The 22nd.
Q So did you remember
A I remembered it because of that.
Page 810
Q Because of that?
A Yeah.
Q So are you saying to the jury that two weeks
before the date Dr. Wilson was killed, then, James had been in your store?
A Yes.
Q What did he do?
A He picked up the two returned checks.
Q Do you remember how much they were
for?
A One was for roughly $5 and one was for a
little better than $22.
Q Did he have to pay a late charge or
anything?
A Yes.
Q Did he say anything to you when he
picked them up?
A He just wanted to get his checks at that
time.
Q Pick up his checks?
A Yes.
Q And your judgment would have been
that that would have been two weeks before the 22nd?
A Roughly two weeks before.
Q You didn't keep a record of it or
write
Page 811
it down when it happened?
A No.
Q Now, did you see him on the 22nd, that
is, Friday before he was
arrested the next week?
A I did.
Q When and where was that?
A In the grocery store.
Q In
A Right.
Q Do you know what time it was you saw him?
A It was between
Q Between
A Yes.
Q What time do you close?
A At
Q At
A He said
he wanted to know if he had another returned check, that he would like
to pick it up. We looked and he didn't
have one.
Q Did he offer to pay for it then?
A He said if we got another returned check on
him, to let him know and he would come pick it up.
Page 812
Q To let him know and he would come pick it
up?
A Yes.
Q Did you see him after that?
A No.
Q Are those the only checks that he had
out?
A That’s the only two.
Q Were any others ever returned to him?
A No, no more.
Q Did you know anything about him other
than just being a customer?
A Just a customer is all .
Q How long had he been coming in the store?
A I would say it had been about a
year that
he had been coming in.
Q All right.
A He might have been in earlier, but I
didn't know him at that time. I was
just beginning to realize who he was within the last year.
MR. FRY: Mrs. Smith, thank you very
much. If some of the gentlemen on the defense table
have any questions, please try to answer their questions.
Page 813
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. HOOPER:
Q Mrs.
Smith, I'm Charlie Hooper. I
haven't met you before. I represent Mrs. Betty Wilson. I believe you stated that you had seen him on
May 22nd; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you and your husband work in the
store together?
A Yes, sir.
Q And I believe, is it not your
custom to take an inventory at night,
some type of inventory?
A We check up at night, yes.
Q What time do you begin that
process?
A At
Q At
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you recall earlier with respect to
trying to remember when Mr. White had
come to the store, that you related that to a period of time when you were
checking up?
A No, I have certain things I do before
Page 814
Q You think it was closer to
A I can't remember that. All I know is it was between
Q All right.
And I believe you said the checks were for $5 and $2; is that correct?
A $22 .
Q $22?
A Yes.
Q Did Mr. White indicate on this night that
he had some cash, that he was ready to pick up some checks?
A Yeah, if we had any, he wanted to pick it
up.
Q Well, Mrs. Smith, if the State has its
way he will
be a customer again.
A All right.
THE COURT:
Any more questions?
MR.
FRY: Your Honor, I move that be stricken
from the record.
THE COURT: I don't know what he said.
MR. FRY: It's just as well.
THE COURT:
I heard part of it but I didn't understand all of it.
MR. FRY: It's just as well.
Page 815
THE COURT: I didn't understand all of
it.
Do
you have any more questions?
MR. FRY: I do not, Your Honor. I would certainly ask that Mrs. Smith be allowed to be excused.
THE COURT: Mrs. Smith may be
excused. Thank you, ma'am.
Mr. fry, it's about quitting
time. Do
you have anybody that you
really need to get on and get back somewhere?
MR. FRY: No, sir.
THE
COURT: If not, we are going to
recess.
MR. FRY: I scheduled around that already this
afternoon.
THE COURT: All right.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we will recess, we will adjourn until in the
morning at
Again, as
you were yesterday, you will be in charge of the bailiffs. And, in the meantime, do not discuss this
case with anyone, permit no one to discuss it with you or in your presence. Please go into the jury room until they are
ready. Thank you.
Page 816
(Whereupon, proceedings were
in recess at
MR.
FRY: State's ready, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: Is the defense ready?
MR. COOK:
We are ready, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Bring the jury
out.
(Brief
pause.)
THE
COURT: Mr. Fry, you may proceed.
LINDA BUSH,
being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Good morning.
A Good morning.
Q How are you doing?
A Fine.
Q If you will, please, ma'am, tell the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury who you are.
A My name is Linda Bush.
Q And, Mrs. Bush, where are you from?
Page 817
A I'm from
Q And what county is that in?
A
Q How far is that from here?
A About 80 miles.
Q Did you come down yesterday to be with
us?
A Yes.
Q You didn't get on yesterday, did you?
A No.
Q We appreciate your staying over. What do
you do, Mrs. Bush?
A I'm the head teller at the First Bank of
Childersburg, the Vincent branch.
Q And that's a bank with headquarters in
Childersburg; is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Is that where the main branch is?
A Yes.
Q Where you work is in Vincent?
A Correct.
Q And do you live in Vincent?
A I live in Harpersville.
Q Harpersville?
Page 818
A Yes.
Q Where is Harpersville?
A That's about five miles south of Vincent.
Q Okay.
A In
Q Is that kind of at the intersection of
280 and 231?
A 280 and 231, yes.
Q How long have you been with the Bank of
Childersburg?
A Almost ten years.
Q How long have you been at
the Vincent
branch?
A Almost ten years.
Q Almost the whole time?
A Yes.
Q Is that the only place you have worked?
A No.
Q Okay.
But most of the ten years?
A Yes.
so
I take it you were an employee and the teller, then, of the Bank of
Childersburg back in
the spring
of last year; is that right?
A Yes.
Page 819
Q Did you all have a customer by the name
of James Dennison White?
A Yes.
Q And did you ever wait on Mr. White or did
you know him?
A Yes.
Q How did you know him?
A I waited on him as a customer at the
bank.
Q And, in your best judgment, how long had
you known him as of May; how long had you known him as a customer?
A Approximately two or three years.
Q Approximately two or three years?
A Yeah.
Q Was he a regular customer?
A He was in, yeah, pretty often, you know,
weekly.
Q Weekly?
A Yeah.
Q All right.
Back in the spring of last
year, more to the point, in
the first of May last year, did you take a deposit from Mr. James
Dennison
White?
Page 820
A Yes, I did.
Q Have you got some records that
reflect that?
A Yes, I do.
Q May I see those?
A Okay.
(Brief pause.)
A His deposit is right there.
Q Did you actually wait on Mr. White,
yourself?
A Yes, I did.
Q And do you remember waiting on him?
A Yes, I do.
Q Is this a record, which I'm marking
as State's Exhibit No. 20 -- which you just gave me, so I take it you are
familiar with it?
A Okay.
Q You are familiar with that; right?
A Right.
Q Is that -- what is State's Exhibit
No.
20; what is
reflected on there?
A Okay.
There was a $500 cash --
Q What is the -- not the transaction
itself --
Page 821
A The transaction -- oh, this is a copy of the
teller tape.
Q That you made?
A That I made, yes.
Q Was that a business record that you made?
A Yes.
Q Part of the customary and normal business
records?
A Yes.
Q Compiled for the bank?
A Correct.
Q It wasn't done for you personally or Mr.
White?
A No, not for me personally.
Q Kept in the normal course of business?
A Right.
Q And you made the copy of the actual tape
itself; is that right?
A Correct.
Q And that's what you have here this morning?
A Right.
Q What kind of transaction was it that you
had with
Mr. White?
Page 822
A He had a cash deposit of $500 to his
checking account. That was his first
transaction. He had several transactions this day.
Q And what day was this, exactly?
A
Q April 27th.
Is that what's on the tape?
A Correct.
Q Is that your best recollection of when this
transaction would have occurred?
A Yes.
Q So you have one deposit of $500; is that
right?
A Correct.
Q And to what kind of account was that deposit
made?
A That was to a checking account.
Q All right.
What other transactions, if
any, did he
make?
A Okay.
He paid two loans.
Q Did he pay them off?
A No, he just paid payments on them.
Q Go ahead.
A They were past due and he paid the payment
plus a late charge on each loan.
Page 823
Q So he brought the past due loan payments up
to date; is that fair to say?
A One of them was 30 past due, one of them
was 60 days past due, and he just made one payment on each, so one brought up
to date and one still behind.
Q one was still behind?
A Yes.
Q Do you know what kind of loan accounts
those were? Were they for personal notes or real estate?
A One was on a 1984 pickup truck and one on a
mobile home.
Q one was for a truck payment and one for a
mobile home payment; is that right?
A Correct.
Q $500 in the checking. How much did he
pay on each of those
payments on the loans that he made?
A One of his loans was 54.54 plus a 2.37 late
charge, and the other one was 253.54 plus a $19.02 late charge.
Q All right. Did he make other
transactions
with you that day?
Page 824
A Yes, he did.
Q What was the next transaction that you have
recorded there?
A Okay.
He bought a money order -- he bought two money orders.
Q Do you know what they were for?
A Well, I have a copy of those. The customer always fills the money order
out after they leave the bank, and they were made out for child support.
Q Yes, ma’am. May I see those?
A Sure.
(Brief pause.)
Q Okay.
These are not the money orders
themselves, because obviously the customer took
that with him; is that
right?
A Correct.
Q But did you issue these from your bank?
A Yes, I did.
Q And you did this personally?
A Yes, I did.
This is the back of it where they were signed.
(Brief pause.)
Q So that State's Exhibit No. 21, then, is
Page 825
a copy which you made of those
money orders?
A Correct.
Q Is it customary to make a copy of them?
A No, we just pulled a copy after we had to
pull the tape to see -- I have the money order numbers on my tape and we just
pull them. They are on file at the
main branch in Childersburg.
Q So you have a number there that
corresponds with the numbers from your copy of
this
A Correct.
Q -- money order; is that right?
A Yes.
Q So then this is actually a photographic or
photocopy of the actual money orders that you issued, you said?
A Correct.
MR.
FRY: we are going to move State's
Exhibit 20, which is going to be this copy of the tape, and 21, copies of the
money orders into evidence.
MR. DRAKE: No objection.
THE
COURT: 20 and 21 admitted.
Q
Okay. And the money orders were
for how
Page 826
much?
A. One
of them was for $120 and one of them
was $50, and there was a $2 fee on
each one.
Q Okay. And did you say these were for child
support?
A That's -- yes, that was on there
somewhere.
Q It's on there somewhere?
A Yes.
Q Okay. That was your understanding?
A That was my understanding, that they were for
child support.
Q So that's 50 and that's 120 dollars. And I take it there was probably a service
charge for the issuance of the money orders; is that right?
A $2 per money order.
Q $2 per money order. All right. Was
there another transaction?
A No, sir, that was all.
Q That was all he did that day?
A Yes.
Okay. Now,
do you remember how he paid you for these transactions?
A It was all cash.
Page 827
Q All cash?
A Yes.
Q I believe you gave a statement to the
police describing what you remembered about that transaction; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Do you have a tape that indicates the
kind of money that you were
given from Mr. White?
A When I enter the money in my machine, I
enter in amounts of, you know, the denomination. And at first I did think that
he gave me all 100's, but I think he must have given me some 20's also.
Q Why is that?
A Well, because like on the $500 cash in
for the deposit, for that deposit I
have $500, so that had to be all one denomination. Had it been 20's, 10's and 5's I would have
broken it down. And then like when he
made his loan payments, he did each transaction-separately. Some people like to do that. He gave me $340, so I'm assuming that that
was 20’s, because I have it entered as $340, and I gave him back $10.17.
Q So if it had been hundreds it would have
said what?
Page 828
A I would -- if it was 200, 1 would put 200,
and 180 in 20's, I would have put $180.
Q So what was the total amount of money
that he actually handed to
you which the bank took
in that day?
A The total amount of money he gave me was
$ 1,003.83.
Q $1003.83.
Now, did you see any other money?
A He had other money in his hand, yes, and
I gave him
back change from this transaction.
Q Could you describe what you saw, what you
viewed in his hand?
A Well, now, this is what I said, after him I
had another large transaction, but I thought that
he had money wrappers,
thousand-dollar bands like put around 100-dollar bills.
Q Yes, ma'am.
A In his hand.
Q And that's what you told the police?
A That's what I told the police I did, yes.
Q Was that your recollection at the time?
A That was my recollection at the time.
But, like I said, in viewing
the teller tape I know
Page 829
how I put my currency in.
Q So you are sure he didn't pay you all in
100-dollar bills?
A No.
Q But this other money that you saw, what was
your recollection about what you saw in his hand that he didn't give you?
A That he had money in a band, a $1,000 band,
purplish in color.
Q Okay. For those of us that aren't bankers
and I don't think any of us much here are other than you and the lady out in
the hall, probably, what does the purple band mean, what is the significance of
that?
A Well, it had $1,000 on it. That's usually what 100's or 20's are put
into, like in $1,000 denominations, that's the way we band them, strapping and
counting them.
Q So say someone that had a business that
needed a lot of cash, say a grocery store like a chain, needed cash on a payday
weekend, if they said, "We need $1,000,” would they get ten bands?
A Ten packs with $1,000 bands.
Q With a purple band?
Page 830
A Well, purple or blue, just -- our bank's is
blue. Banks have different colors. I
guess they order from different companies.
Q But, at any rate, he had other money
which you actually saw?
A Yes, sir.
Q Other than the 1,007 that you received?
A Yes.
Q Now, the deposit -- let's go back for a
moment to the checking account. Okay. Do you have records from the bank there
as to the status of his checking account?
A Yes.
Q Now,
I believe the manager of the bank is actually outside?
A Correct.
Q She's waiting to come in also. Are these records taken from the bank's records
there in Vincent?
A Correct.
Q Are those records that you have access to
and are custodian of as well as the lady who is coming in next?
A Correct.
Page 831
Q And do you have the account there, as of
the date you took the deposit on - - the status of that as of the day you took
the deposit on Mr.
White?
A Yes, I do.
Q Let me mark this, then, as State's
Exhibit No. 22 and ask, Mrs. Bush,
for you to describe exactly what this exhibit is. And we will pass that around,
if it's accepted by the Court, in a moment.
A This is a copy of his bank statement for
the -- well, it's not for the complete month of April, but it's just for what
we call an instant statement. And at
that time he was $453 .16 overdrawn, which was - - had accumulated in a matter
of, like -- you may want these others, too.
Q Okay.
A It was over a period of, like, three
months. And this was all charges, $15
charges, where he had written checks, had insufficient
funds, they come back and we charge
$15. And which he has a minus balance.
Q Let's do this first.
MR. FRY: I offer State's Exhibit 22 into
Page 832
evidence.
MR.
DRAKE: No objection.
Q That's into evidence. Now, Mrs. Bush, if you will, let's take them
one at a time, beginning with this statement here. Can you explain the various
entries? We are going to pass it around to the jury for them to see in a
moment, but beginning with the first entries there, explain what these mean as
far as the status of his account? That is, as far as how much money he had or
didn't have.
A Okay. He didn't have any, a minus means no
money. The $15 charge is, like I said, for a check that was returned because he
had no money.
And they just keep minusing -- and that's how much he owed the bank, $453.16,
to bring his balance
back to
zero. And the month before it was --
Q Let me take this one and get it started
around. And you have the money before that, then, before you?
A Yes, I have from February the 23rd to April
the 22nd.
Q Let's mark that as State's Exhibit No.
23. Again,
is this a document kept in the normal course of your business?
Page 833
A Right.
Q And part of the business record of the
business?
A This is a copy of his statement.
MR. FRY: We move State's
Exhibit 23 into evidence.
A okay. And he had like f ive $15
charges,?' four $15 charges, 6.50
service charge, and he was $401.66 overdrawn when his statement
went out.
Q Were there any other deposits made?
A No.
Q And that was from February 23rd until
March 22nd?
A 22nd.
They were all negative
transactions in that month; is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Let's go back to the next month, then.
MR. FRY: I
take it this exhibit is entered, Your Honor?
THE COURT: it is. 23 is admitted.
Q What are the dates of this statement?
A
Page 834
the 23rd, 1992.
MR. FRY: I'll mark this as
State's Exhibit No. 24.
Q This is a record similar to the others
but for the one month before; is
that right?
A That's this one.
Q Okay.
A One month before; correct. And he still didn't have any deposits that
month, it's all charges. And there were two checks paid on the
23rd. He had $39.67, he had a check to come in for
$10 and a check to come in f or $20, which was paid, and after that it was just
all charges.
Q Okay.
So in the statement from January 22nd up to February the 23rd, there
was, appears
that one day that he did
have $39 and some-odd cents in the bank; is that right?
A Correct.
Q And a check was paid?
A Two checks were paid the 23rd.
Q How many other checks were written that
month that were returned; can you tell?
A Each $15 charge represents one check.
Q So would that be, then -- count with me,
Page 835
if you will. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight, nine, ten. What is this here,
13.33?
A I have no idea.
Q 11, 12, 13. Would there appear to have
been -- and these over here, too. 14,
15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22.
A 22.
Would you agree there is at
least 22 returned checks that month?
A That could possibly be a check order. it doesn't have a code by it, so I don't
know.
Q Okay. No deposits?
A No deposits.
Q 22 bad checks in January through 23rd of
February?
A Correct.
MR.
FRY: If I haven't offered this in
evidence --
THE COURT: Is that 24?
MR. FRY:
24.
MR.
DRAKE: No objection.
THE
COURT: Admitted.
Q All right.
What period do you have here?
A This is from
Page 836
Q Okay. And what does your record reflect as
to the status of his account during this period?
A On January 22nd, when his statement went
out, he had the amount of 69.67. He had
several check charges in this month.
Seven charges in this month for insufficient funds, but he also had
deposits.
Q He
did make some deposits in December
of - -
A Yes, he did.
Q How much were the deposits for?
A He had a $40 deposit on
Q And those were all of his deposits?
A That is all of his deposits.
Q What was the largest of those?
A $600.
Q $600 deposit?
A Yes.
MR.
PRY: I'll mark this as State's Exhibit
No. 25 and we offer this into evidence.
THE
COURT: 25 admitted.
Page 837
Q Now, before I publish this to the jury:
From the statements which you have just gone over for us, was it in December of
‘91 that Mr. White made his last deposit prior to bringing his account up to
date in April of ‘92?
A According to the records, yes.
Q Okay. And everything after the $29 balance he
had during one of those months, every check after that was returned; is that
correct?
A Correct.
Q But on the April date, which was when,
April the - -
A 27th.
Q 27tb.
Is it your testimony that he came in and brought all of this
indebtedness, as far as the checks are concerned, up to date?
A Correct.
Q And paid on two loan accounts?
A Paid on two loan accounts.
Q Was there anything out of the ordinary
about Mr. White when he came in and paid the checks on the 27th?
MR. HOOPER: Judge, I object
to "out of
the
ordinary."
Page 838
Q Well, how did he appear?
A He was nice, calm. I mean, you know, had money. So he was just trying to catch everything
up, said he was trying to
catch everything up.
Q Had you ever had any problems with Mr.
White?
A He had - - you know, his checks had been
overdrawn and he was trying to take care
of that and catch his loans up and, you
know, sometimes we have people who get behind if they are out of work, sick,
things like that.
Q He had been a customer for two years?
A Correct.
Q Do you know who loaned him the money to buy
his truck and his mobile home?
A Jean Baker.
Q Ms. Baker?
A Yes.
Q She is waiting outside?
A Correct.
Q May I
have Exhibit No. 20, please, ma'am? A
Sure.
Q I'll let you keep that.
A You might just want to attach that to the
Page 839
back of that.
Q All right. Let me show you what I'm
going to mark as --
MR.
FRY: I'm going to mark this as 21-A,
Your Honor. This exhibit is the reverse --
Q What is this? Is that the reverse of the
money orders?
A This is the back of the money order where
they signed – where it was signed and where it was sent through the bank. It has the dates it was sent through the
bank. This one was cashed at Smith's Grocery and this
one at Vincent Red and White in
Q And this is your photocopy of the back of
the money order; is that right?
A That's the back.
MR. FRY: I am marking this as 21-A, Your Honor, and
asking that the clerk at a later time be allowed to attach these exhibits
together so they will be -- seem to be one exhibit.
(Brief pause.)
Q After having brought his checking account
up to date and loan accounts up to date and having purchased these money
orders, Mrs. Bush, were there
Page 840
any other transactions that you had
with Mr. White
on this date?
A Not that day. He just thanked me and
left.
MR. FRY: That is all that I
have to ask you. If you will, please
answer whatever questions these other gentlemen have.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HOOPER:
Q Mrs. Bush, I'm Charlie Hooper. I think I have had the pleasure to meet
you before, have I not?
A Yes.
Q Nice to see you. I believe you touched
on your statement that you
had given earlier to the police back in July of 1992; is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
Did you not at that time also -- or at the time that you gave the
statement was that at the bank?
A At the time I gave the statement?
Q Yes,
ma'am.
A Was it at the bank? Yes, I wrote that statement out.
Page 841
Q So you had access to these records at the
time, did you not?
A Yes, I did.
Q And at the time that you gave that
statement, you specifically told the police that
you recall that Mr. White
had in his possession one bundle of what appeared to you to be $100 bills with
a band that would be $1,000; is that correct?
A Let me make a correction on that. I did not
give that statement at the bank.
Q
Okay.
A I wrote the statement out, but I gave the
statement to Micky Brantley at my home.
Q All right. Where did you write this
statement out, then, at your home?
A No, I wrote it out at the bank.
Q Okay.
So at the time that you wrote it
out you had
your records with you?
A Correct.
Q All right. The amount that you recall,
$340, I believe you stated that your records would kind of indicate to you that
that was not in $100 bills; is that correct?
A Yes, it does.
Page 842
Q Okay.
A Well, yes.
Q Well, how does your record indicate it was
paid in 20's as opposed to 5's, $1 bills or $10 bills?
A I would have remembered counting that many
5's or 1's.
Q Well, how about 10's, could it not be a
combination of 20's and - -
A I would have remembered counting that many
10's. If it was a combination I would have entered it in separately. Had it been in different denominations of
money, I would have entered it separately. As it is, I entered the total amount
in.
Q So by that record you know or have a firm
recollection that it was all 20's, is that what
your testimony is?
A No, I'm not saying it was all 20's, I'm
saying like the $500 was either all 100's or all 20's, it was all one
denomination. It wasn't 10's, because
I would have remembered.
Q Could have been some 10's in there,
couldn't it?
Page 843
A No.
Q $340, it could not have been any 10's paid
to you?
A I would have entered it separately.
Q I believe you stated he had two loans, a
truck loan and another loan; is that correct?
A Mobile home, yes.
Q Is that a mobile home loan or is the mobile
home put up as collateral; is that a personal loan?
A The mobile home is as collateral.
Q So it's not -- the money was not lent to
purchase the mobile home, was it?
A Yes. Well, I don't know, you would have to
talk to Mrs. Baker.
Q You don't know?
A I don't know that. I do not know that.
Q Okay.
A The mobile home is collateral on the loan.
Q Tell me, then, how you can testify under
oath that this loan was made for the
mobile home.
A Because that was collateral on it and
usually when you put something up for collateral,
Page 844
that' s what you usually purchase
with it.
Q Do you know the total amount that was
loaned on this?
A I do
not.
Q Do you not have it in front of you?
A No, Mrs. Baker has that.
Q Has it ever been shown to you? This --
A The mobile' home loan?
Q Is it not a personal loan?
A Like I said, I looked at the loan and its
got collateral, the mobile home on one and the Ford truck on the other.
Q I assume that your bank makes personal
loans; is that correct?
A Like I said, you will have to ask Mrs.
Baker.
Q Well, I'm asking you right now, though.
A I didn't make the loan.
Q I'm not asking about that loan. Does
your bank --
A - - make personal loans?
Q - - make personal loans.
A Just on signature loans, you are speaking?
Page 845
Q I'm just saying personal loans right
now.
A Yes, we do.
Q Okay. Let's assume I come to your bank
and you are gracious enough
to maybe loan me a
little money. That would be
called a personal
loan; is that correct?
A Correct.
Q And I assume to protect the bank, you might
want me to put something up?
A Correct.
Q That would be collateral?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
And if I put up a bicycle, is the nature of the loan changed to a loan
on my bicycle
or is it still a personal
loan?
A If you use that money to purchase the
bicycle, it's a loan on the bicycle.
Q Well, if it's not mine, how do I put it
up? If I don't own it yet,
how do I put it up as collateral?
A Well, people borrow money to purchase
items.
Q Right.
Okay. And if you do that, then
you are going to have a
closing and the bank's going
Page 846
to be present; correct?
A Right.
Q To make sure that money is spent for that
item?
A Correct.
Q So there would be some records in the
bank to show a closing
statement with respect to
the loan and the application of the
funds; is that correct?
A There would be a title on the truck and
on the mobile home.
Q Sure. Okay. Mrs. Bush, I believe I
asked you to -- back when I
was visiting you in the bank, if you would review his records for ‘91. Do you recall that?
A ‘91.
I don't have - -
Q
Okay. Let me ask you, do you have
with you records of Mr. White's accounts that would go back into February and
October of ‘91?
A I don't have those with me for February of
‘91.
Q Do you recall looking at those for me at any
time?
A To tell you the truth, no, I don't, not
Page 847
in ‘91. What I remember showing you was this teller
tape.
Q Do you know of any time in the history of
Mr. White's account with the bank, that he ever
made a deposit in excess of this
$600 deposit that you have testified to?
A No, but I didn't review all his statements.
Q Well, you did review January of 1992; is
that correct?
A Correct.
Q And during that, let's say the first week
of January of 1992, did Mr. White withdraw from
that bank in either an
account or in any other fashion, any sum of money in excess of $1,000?
A No, he didn't have that amount in there.
Q Okay.
A I don't have that record in front of me,
but I don't recall seeing it.
Q So if Mr. White, the first week in January,
has got monies in excess of $1,000, it didn't come from your bank,- right?
A No, sir.
Q And back on April 27th, when you were
Page 848
waiting on Mr. White and you saw
that bundle of $100 bills with the purple band on it, do you have any
knowledge, did that come from your bank?
A Not that I know of I don't know of him making a loan at
our bank.
Q I mean, it could have come out of a hole
in the ground at his place, as far
as you know; right?
A I don't know where the money came from.
MR. HOOPER: Thank you, Mrs.
Bush.
THE COURT: Any more
questions?
MR. FRY:
No, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT:
Mrs. Bush, you may step down, please, ma'am.
MR.
FRY: We would ask that she be
excused and allowed to go
back to work.
THE COURT:
She may be.
MR. HOOPER:
Judge, could we approach the bench just a minute?
THE COURT:
Sure.
(Whereupon,
counsel approached the bench for an off-the-record discussion out of the
presence and hearing of the
jury; after which the following occurred:)
Page 849
DOROTHY
JEAN BAKER
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Good morning.
A Good morning.
Q How are you doing?
A Fine.
Q Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen
of the jury who you are,
please, ma'am.
A Dorothy Jean Baker. I'm from Vincent and I'm employed at First
Bank of Childersburg, branch manager.
Q And, again, the bank is -- has as its
main office the bank in
Childersburg; is that correct?
A Correct.
Q But your bank is in Vincent?
A Right.
Q How far apart is that?
A It's about ten miles.
Q Ten miles?
A Right.
Page 850
Q And how long have you been the manager of
the Vincent branch, Mrs. Baker?
A Approximately ten years.
Q Ten years?
A Yes.
Q Have you and Mrs. Bush, that just left,
been working together that long?
Q
Yes, I have been at the bank almost 20 years , but, now, she has not
been there that long.
Q Okay.
Y'all have been friends a long time, it sounds like?
A Right.
Q And you are the branch manager; is that
right?
A Yes.
Q How long have you been the branch manager
of that bank?
A Ten years.
Q Ten years?
A Right.
Q The whole time you have been there you have
been the branch manager?
A No.
Q With the Bank of Vincent?
Page 851
A No.
Q Okay.
You work there
A I have worked there 20 years, but I have
only been the branch manager ten years.
Q Okay. Now, back in the spring of last year,
then, you also were the branch manager; is
that right?
A Yes.
Q And what kind of bank is that? Is that in a
trailer or is it a regular brick and mortar bank? Is it a permanent bank?
A Yes, it's a permanent bank. It's a brick building.
Q Okay. What do you do there as the
manager of that bank?
A As the manager I -- well, I do a lot of
different jobs, but mainly I'm in charge of loans
and seeing customers when
they come in the bank to borrow money and just seeing that things run properly.
Q The head honcho, I guess, more or less?
A Well, more or less, yes.
Q Are there any other officers in the bank? A Yes, we have one other loan officer.
Page 852
Q One other loan officer?
A Yes.
Q How many tellers do you have there?
A We have three full-time and one part-time
teller.
Q Now, did you have a customer at your bank
by the name of Mr. James Dennison White?
,k Yes, Sir.
Q And back in May of last year was he a
customer of yours?
A Yes, Sir.
Q Do you know, in your best judgment, how
long he had been a customer of your bank?
A I would say probably about four years, to
my knowledge.
Q Four years to your knowledge. Had you known him, do you think, that long?
A Yes, Sir.
Q As a customer, I take it?
A Well, I had only briefly known him like
about two years. He had originally done
business with our main office in Childersburg.
Q Okay.
So he had been a customer of the bank before he came to you in Vincent;
is that
Page 853
right?
A Correct, yes, Sir.
Q So you are saying he had had an account
with your specific bank in Vincent for
two years?
A Yes, Sir.
Q What kind of accounts did he have there?
A Checking account is the only thing that I
can tell you that I know for sure that he had. Checking account and, of course,
he had loans with us.
Q Had loans?
A Yes.
Q That's what I want to ask you about. Did you make Mr. White some loans?
A Yes, Sir.
Q When did you do that, when is the first
loan that you know about or that you
recall? Have you got records there?
A Yeah, I have got records. May I look?
Q You surely may.
A Okay.
(Brief pause.)
A Okay. The first record that I have of a
loan with him was on June of ‘91.
Page 854
Q June of ‘91. What kind of loan was that
for?
A Okay. That was a loan to purchase a
vehic1e.
Q Do you know he bought a vehicle with
that?
A Yes, sir.
Q How do you know that?
A Because the car dealer that he bought it
from also came to the bank with him when he purchased the car.
Q Did you --
A And we did the title work on the car.
Q Is the title actually in the -- it shows you
all as a lienholder or the title with the bank at
Vincent?
A Yes.
Q Or the Bank of Childersburg?
A Yes, sir.
Q May I see that first document, please,
ma'am?
MR.
FRY: Now, gentlemen, for the sake of
time, I'm going to ask her about all of these records she has at one time.
Page 855
Q You have got several documents there in
front of you. What are all of these that
you have right there in your lap, Mrs. Baker?
A I have one other paper that shows a smaller
loan that he also had with the bank, and I have just like payment histories of
where payments were made on the loan., the last payment, and when the payments
were made.
Q Okay. And are all of these documents you
have part of your business records there at the
Bank of Childersburg at Vincent
Branch?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are they kept as a part of your business
record?
A They are.
All of our records are kept at our main branch office, they keep all of
the
records centrally located.
Q Were they compiled by you or people under
your supervision?
A They were - - these files were pulled by
me.
Q All
right.
A Like the copies of the loans, they had to
be done at Childersburg, because they are kept in a
Page 856
file at Childersburg.
Q Did you make this loan yourself?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you are familiar with the loan. Do
you recall lending money to Mr.
White to pay what, a truck with?
A Yes, sir.
Q
Says on here, “’84 Ford F150.” Was that your collateral on the loan?
A Yes, sir.
Q And is that what you loaned him the money
to buy?
A Well, actually when he borrowed the money
it was on another vehicle, and he had some problems with it and the car dealer
made the agreement to
swap with him. So we swapped the collateral and changed
collateral somewhere down the line.
Q All
right. Let me ask you to identify State's Exhibit No. 26. Is this the loan which you referred to in
your testimony just a moment ago for the truck?
A Yes, sir.
Okay. And, again, when was this loan made?
Page 857
A This loan was made on June 20th of 1991.
Q And you made it, you were the loan officer,
that is?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you took as collateral the ‘84 Ford
that's shown on there; is that right?
A Right.
MR. FRY: We move State's
Exhibit 26 into evidence.
THE COURT: 26 is admitted.
Q Now, did you make any other loans to Mr.
White?
A Yes, sir.
Q When was the other loan or loans?
A The other loan was made in January of
‘92.
Q January of ‘92. Do you have a document that reflects a record
of that loan?
A Yes,
sir.
Q
May I see it?
(Brief
pause.)
Q
What kind of loan was this, Mrs. Baker?
A This was just a personal loan which was
secured by a mobile home that he owned.
Page 858
Q Okay. Now, a personal loan, what do you
mean by that?
A Well, a personal loan, we consider a
personal loan a small amount of money.
Q Okay.
A Less than $1,000.
Q You just loaned him money7,
A Right.
Q Do you know what he did with it?
A No, sir.
Q In other words, you didn't -- as far as
you know, he didn't buy anything you took as collateral; is that right?
A No, sir.
Q Not a car or - -
A No, sir.
Q Now, you took as collateral a mobile
home; is that right?
A Right.
Q And you said Mr. -- you said a moment ago
Mr. White owned that mobile home; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know that to be a fact?
A He brought a bill of sale in on it with
Page 859
the serial number, the description
of the trailer on it.
Q Which would be evidence to you that it was
paid for?
A Right.
Q Were you aware of any outstanding loans or
other liens on this mobile home?
A No, sir.
Q Is that the kind of thing that you would
check?
A No, not normally if they bring a bill of
sale in on it, and we usually file a mortgage against it with the County.
Q All right. Were you aware of any other
liens or mortgages on this collateral?
A No, sir.
Q So, then, how much money did you loan Mr.
White?
A $700.
Q How was it to be paid back?
A It was to be paid back in 15 monthly
payments.
Q Okay.
Beginning on February the 23rd and ending April of this year; is that
right? Would
Page 860
have paid out this spring?
A Right.
Q And is this a record that reflects the loan
itself?
A Yes, sir.
MR.
FRY: We move State's Exhibit No. 27 into evidence.
THE
COURT: 27 admitted.
Q Now, do you have a record there that
reflects the history of these loan accounts, Mrs. Baker?
A Yes, sir.
Q And those records you have already
testified are kept by the bank, they are records
that you either prepared or are
custodian of; is
that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Beginning with the first of the year, in
January, what was the status of Mr. White's loan accounts with you? Let's
begin, if we may, with the order that you gave it to us, with the truck loan.
A Okay.
Now, what I have here only shows first payment was made on February the
24th of ‘92, and, you know, it shows that he made a payment of
Page 861
$126.77.
Q Okay.
A The next payment was not made until April
the 27th.
Q So he missed the March payment?
A Right.
Q And was the April payment due?
A Okay--. He made the February
payment, the March payment was missed. And then he made two payments on
the April payment.
Q Okay.
A Which made it show the May payment as the next
payment due.
Q So was he caught up or was there another
one due?
A Well, there was a May payment due, so he
was still 30 days past due at that time.
Q All right. Now, on the other account, what
was the history of that account?
A Okay.
Show the first payment was made on March 10th of ‘92, the payments were
like $54.54. There was not another payment made until April the 27th, and there
was only one payment made then, which left him still being 60 days past due.
Page 862
Q Okay.
Did he have any other loans with you?
A No, sir, these were the only two he had
active.
Q Okay.
And your records would indicate that the payments were made in April of
1992, on both of those accounts; is that right?
A Same day, yes, sir.
Q And
you personally lent that money to Mr. White; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
MR. FRY: I believe that is all, Mrs. Baker. If the defense counsel would like to ask
questions, please try to answer their questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR.
HOOPER:
Q Hi, Mrs. Baker. I think I have met you
before, have I not?
A Yes.
Q Nice to see you again. I have just got a few questions to ask you.
Back in April when Mr. White
made his appearance at the bank and paid on a few things, he left that bank
still owing money; right?
Page 863
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Did you get a financial statement
from him back in January of ‘92?
A No, sir.
Q Okay. So you loaned him $800; is that
right? $880?
A $700, but with interest it was 800 and
something.
Q 700 bucks. Did you even inquire from him as
to whether or not he was going to have any means to pay it back; did you ask
him if he was working?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did he tell you?
A To the best of my knowledge, he had been
unemployed for a while and he was supposed to be getting some money, he said a
settlement or something that he was going to try to catch all of this up with.
Q So y'all loaned him money on a hope and a
prayer?
A Well, his mother-in-law signed with him on
one of these notes.
Q Okay. Let's be a little bit more specific
with this loan in January. What was the
Page 864
date that you loaned him the money?
A In January?
Q Yes, ma'am.
A Now, which loan are you talking about?
Q That's the personal loan.
A The personal loan?
Q Did you have more than one loan in January
of ‘92?
A No, that was just -- well, it's on that
loan, I would have to look at it and see. I'm sorry.
Q All right.
A I'm not good with dates.
(Brief
pause.)
A January the 17th.
Q Okay.
And at that time you were satisfied
that the mobile home -- there was no outstanding indebtedness or
anything like that on the mobile home; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was as a result of what Mr. White
told you or what he presented to you?
A Well, what he presented and told us.
Q Okay. And this is the same Mr. White
Page 865
that's been flooding your bank with
bad checks; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And y'all just kind of accept what he says?
A Well, he had been a customer for several
years and we had had no problems out of him.
Q A lot of customers like that and you would
be out of business, would you not?
A Well, that's true.
Q I don’t suppose you all closed his account
out, have you?
A Yes, sir, I think it is closed out.
Q Okay.
A He closed it out, I think.
Q Okay. But he may open it up again.
MR. HOOPER:
Thank you.
THE COURT:
Any more questions?
MR.
FRY: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mrs. Baker, you
may be excused. Thank you.
Page 866
LINDA
VASCOCU
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR, FRY:
Q Good morning.
A Good morning.
Q
Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen
of the jury who you are,
please, ma’am.
A My name is Linda Vascocu.
Q Where are you from, Mrs. Vascocu?
A I'm from the Vincent,
Q And the Vincent area is kind of all
around that lake?
A Right.
Q That's in the
A Right. Just a little small community, rural
area. I go to church in Vincent. My son goes to school there, I teach there. So, like I say, a little small community. It's very rural
Q Just off of 280 towards Sylacauga, I
Page 867
guess; is that right, going from
A Right.
If you want some history I can go into some depth.
Q Thank you. Maybe some other time.
You and I
have never met until just this morning, I believe?
A That's right.
We spoke to
each other on the telephone?
A Right.
Q Now, what do you teach over there in
Vincent? I believe you teach at more
than one school, don't you?
A Right. I teach at Vincent Elementary,
Middle, and High School. My degree is in
home economics, but right now I am substituting, so I'm teaching all subjects.
Q I see.
So you teach wherever, they call you at
A Right.
Q And you teach at all of the schools,
then, in Vincent?
A In Vincent.
Q Elementary, middle, and high school?
Page 868
A Yes.
Q Now, you have a friend, do you not,
who was teaching at the
the name of Mrs. Peggy Lowe;
is that right?
A That's right.
Q How long have you and Mrs. Lowe been
friends?
A- Somewhere between six and seven
years. I met them when
Q And I believe in the spring of last year
you actually lived in their home for some period of time; is that right?
A Yes, I did.
Q Would you explain when that was and how
that came about?
A All right.
Q You have a home of your own, don't you?
A Right, I do. The house that I had sold and the house that
I was moving into was not yet
ready, and I had thought that would
not be a
problem, that I would just move
into the Resident
Page 869
anywhere in the
stay with us." I said,
"Well, look, this could run into, you know, a week, it wouldn't just be
the weekend or two." And she said, "That's fine, no problem, ever how
long it takes, just come stay."
Q So how long did it run into?
A Three weeks.
Q Three
weeks. So you stayed there three weeks until your house was ready for you to
move in; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Is that on the lake, also?
A It's on the lake.
Q What lake is that?
A
Q
Page 870
spring or last summer, weren't you?
A That's right.
Q Did you talk to Officer Brantley here; do
you remember him?
A I did not see him. We talked on the telephone.
Q On
the telephone, I'm sorry. But you did talk to someone?
A Right.
Q Did they ask you about a time back in May of
last year, that is, 1992, and in regard to an incident involving Peggy's
daughter Stephanie; is that right?
A Yes.
Q She has a daughter. How old is
Stephanie?
A Stephanie is 15.
Q Okay.
And Stephanie becoming ill?
A Right.
Q Do
you remember that incident?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember telling the officers back
at that time that that would have been on about Tuesday the 19th of May?
Page 871
A Right.
Q Is that an accurate time frame, to the best
of your recollection?
A Right.
Q What was young Miss Lowe's problem? What
was Stephanie's problem, as you recall?
A She had recently been to the doctor and
they had put har on some type of medication, and she
had an allergic reaction to the medication that she was taking. And they had to
rush her to the Emergency Room. It was
so severe, I mean, she could have died from it because she could not breathe.
Q So her problem, then, basically, was a
breathing problem; is that right?
A Right.
Q At least that was the symptom, I guess
you could say?
A Yes.
Q And did they have to call an ambulance to
come get Stephanie?
A Well - -
Q Or they met an ambulance?
A They met an ambulance on the way. But they went on and put her in the car to
take her on,
Page 872
then the ambulance met them on the
way, with the medicine from Vincent. The doctor that she had gone to was from
Vincent and she had contacted the medical unit and sent what they needed to
give her, afraid that
Q Now,
she became better; right?
A Right.
Q She got to come home the next day?
A No, she came back home that night.
Q That night?
A Yes.
Q
Well, good. But, anyway, that was a memorable event for that week, I take it?
A Yes.
Q You were very concerned?
A Very concerned.
Q So do you remember the next day, then, which
would have been Wednesday the 20th?
A Right.
Q At
some point in time - - and you were
staying at Mrs. Lowe's house; is that right?
A Yes.
Page 873
Q Did you work during the daytime?
A Yes.
Q And what were you doing at that time?
A I owned my own business. Since that time
I sold the business and am
teaching. But I went to work at
And I got
up and, you know, normal getting ready to go to work, and Peggy said, you know,
that she was going to stay home with Stephanie, just to make
sure that she was still all
right. And I left that morning about
Q No, ma'am. Let's skip on up a little
bit, if we
may. Thank you. But what time did you get back to the Lowe residence that
evening, assuming that's where you returned to?
A Right.
Somewhere between
Q After having spent the day in Sylacauga
Page 874
at work?
A Yes.
Q Now, was someone visiting in the Lowe
home that evening when you returned?
A Yes.
Q Was there a guest there?
A Yes.
Q Who was that?
A Betty Wilson was there.
Q Is that the lady seated here next to Mr.
Sandlin?
A Yes, sir, that's Betty.
Q And did you know her?
A Yes, I had met Betty before. Peggy's oldest daughter, Angie, had married a
couple of years prior to this time, and Betty had been to the church to the
teas and receptions and things that we had.
Been to the wedding. Had visited
our church on a couple of other occasions where I met her.
Q So you knew her, very familiar with her? A
Yes.
Q Now, that evening did Mrs. Lowe and Mrs.
Page 875
A Yes, they did.
Q Where did they go, if you know?
A Well, when I came in, Betty and Peggy and
Wayne were eating, Stephanie was out on the deck,
and they were all eating. And I sat down to talk to them, how the day
had been, what they had been
doing. Stephanie had wanted some
ice cream. And so it was Wednesday,
Q Okay.
And that was -- are you certain that was Wednesday?
A Yes.
Q May - -
A Right, because that was church night, and
we discussed -- I told them -- you know, normally I would go to church on
Wednesday night. And I said,
Page 876
"I won't, I'll stay with
Stephanie. I know you have had a rough
day, rough night, y'all just go do
that."
Q And that would have been May the 20th, last
year?
A Right.
Q Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q Now, did they leave?
A Yes.
Q Whose car were they in?
A You know, I did not look out to see which
car they were in. I assume -- but I
only assume
they went in Betty's car and
that Wayne took his
car, but, now, I'm only
assuming, because I did not look.
Q Do you remember what kind of car Mrs.
Wilson had?
A I know it was a black car. It was either
a Mercedes or BMW, but I'm
not positive. I don't know the makes
of cars. Well, it was just a black car
and it was kind of that size.
Q That size?
A A foreign-looking
--
Page 877
Q Foreign-looking car?
A Yes.
Q A nice-looking car, would you say?
A Yes.
Q Now, when they returned did they have
anything with them?
A They brought some movies back and ice
cream.
Q All right. Do you know where they got those
movies?
A No.
No, I do not. Now, in the area where we are, it's a 15-minute drive to go anyplace to buy
anything. So they had either gone to
to Vincent, would have been
the same time frame,
and they were gone about the length
of time that it would take to go get ice cream and a movie and come back.
Q So either going to
taken some time or to go where
else, did you say?
A To Vincent.
Q To Vincent.
Are those the two choices
you have?
A Well, Childersburg is about the same
distance
that way, too.
Page 878
Q Would the two closest places have been
A Yes, sir.
Q Are they about the same?
A About the same.
Q All right. Of course,
much larger place, is it not, than
Vincent?
Right.
Q But you could have gotten a movie or ice
cream at either place?
A Either place.
Q You work in Vincent or have been in Vincent
and they have that kind of stuff there,
too?
A Right.
Q So did they return, then, with that
stuff ,
with the ice cream and movies?
A Yes, they did.
Q And what did y'all do after they got
back?
A Well, we dished the ice cream up,
everyone had some ice
cream. And we settled in to watch the
movie. I watched about five minutes of
it and went to sleep.
Page 879
Q Were you tired or was it a pretty bad
movie?
A Just really for the young people, it was
more Stephanie's type movie and my son, Bill, who
is 17, 1 think they enjoyed
it, but it was, like I said --
Q Do you remember what it was about?
A Really I couldn't tell you.
Q Well, let me suggest a title to you and see
if this refreshes your recollection.
Could it have either been Free Jack or Thelma & Louise?
A It had Mick Jagger
in it, so I would assume it was Free Jack.
Q
Free Jack. Okay. But you didn't
Watch it?
A Maybe about five minutes.
Q You didn't miss much. Just one second, please, ma'am.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Now, Mrs. Vascocu,
did you know James White?
A I had met him one time before all the
publicity started.
Q And when was that occasion?
Page 880
A He came over to the Lowes'
house. Peggy and I had cleaned out her
basement, packaged up a
lot of things that could either be
taken to the dump or used or sold. And Peggy had told me about Mr. white, that
he was having some financial
difficulty. She knew his
daughter from school.
And that she thought he
might could use some of the things. And so we boxed them up and put them
by the back basement door, and he came over to take those items and to carry
them off or sell them or use
them.
In
relationship to the day we have just been talking about, that is, May the 20th,
when
would that have been?
A It was the same day that Steffie had the allergic reaction to the medication.
Q So then the day before?
A That would have been Tuesday. Tuesday.
Q Tuesday?
A Yes.
Okay. So you saw him almost in exactly the same
time period we are talking about here,
then; is that right?
A Yes.
Page 881
Q Had you seen him before?
A No.
Q Do you know what he did, what his
occupation was?
A Well, Peggy told me -- like I said, I did
not have any knowledge of him beforehand, but she said he had been doing some
carpentry work at the school. They had built a new wing, a new addition, and
that she had met him through the school. And I don't know if his daughter had
been in her class,
but through the child and
through the school.
Q Did she mention anything to you about
lending him some money or giving him some money?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q What was that about?
A She said that he had had his utilities
turned off I he did not have the money to pay the utility bill, and she had
loaned him some money to have his utilities turned back on. This was in the
wintertime. And that she did not think that he
would be able to pay her
back because he didn't have a job, a regular job. And they had agreed that he would work the
money off doing some odd jobs around the house for Wayne and Peggy. And
Page 882