IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE

SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT

IN AND FOR TUSCALOOSA COUNTY, ALABAMA

 

STATE OF ALABAMA            )

                            )

VS.                         )     CC92-1893

                            )

BETTY WOODS WILSON,         )

                            )    

Defendant.        )

 

* * * * * * * * *

VOLUME III

 

TESTIMONY OF:

JENNIFER WILSON (Librarian Con’t) . . . . . . .PAGE 733

 

KEITH TUCKER (Security Officer–

Guntersville State Park) . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 744

 

ROBERT HAWKINS (Security Officer-

Guntersville State Park). . . . . . . . . . . .PAGE 765

 

DAVID STORK (Desk Clerk at

Guntersville State Park). . . . . . . . . . . .PAGE 796

 

SHIRLEY SMITH (Vincent Grocery

Store Operator). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 806

 

LINDA BUSH (Head Teller, 1st Bank of

Childersburg-Vincent). . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 817

 

JEAN BAKER(Branch Manager, 1st Bank of

Childersburg-Vincent). . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 850

 

LINDA VASCOCU (Substitute School

Teacher-Vincent) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 867

MARTHA WALKER (Owner Bullet’s Video, Vincent). PAGE 890

MAVIS KENNEDY (Peggy Lowe’s Neighbor). . . . . PAGE 902

 

KELLIE JORDAN (Manager-Camelot Music-

Huntsville). . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .PAGE 912

 

VINCE CARUSO (Associate-Camelot Music-

Huntsville). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 930

 

 

RON WHITE (Manager-Chick-Fil-A-

Huntsville). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 935

 

KAREN JAMES (Employee-Kmart). . . . . . . . . .PAGE 944

GARY HOUCK (General Manager-Ramada Inn). . . . PAGE 958

 

JIM GARRETT (Neighbor & Patient of

Dr. Wilson). . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .PAGE 986

 

PETER WILLIAM COULTER (Shoe Manager-

Yeilding’s Department Store-Huntsville) . . . .PAGE 1000

 

JO ANN BAIRD MOORE (Owner-Sun Tropic

Tanning Salon-Huntsville). . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1012

 

DAVID OLIVER (Custom Service Manager-

Parisian Department Store-Huntsville) . . . . .PAGE 1023

 

JOANN WILLIAMSON (Project Manager-

Design Supply Inc-Huntsville). . . . . . . . . PAGE 1033

 

DAVID WILLIAMS (Clerk-Whitesport

Pharmacy-Huntsville). . . . . . . . . .. . . . PAGE 1046

 

JUADINE BROOKS (Assistant Manager-

The Village Shoppe-Huntsville). . . . . . . . .PAGE 1055

 

SHELIA IRBY (Testified she saw James

White walking down Boulder Circle). . . . . . .PAGE 1068

 

BELINDA SCHUMANN (Dietician-Crestwood

Hospital-AA Member). . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1116

 

PEGGY BLACK (Wife of Police Officer/

Office Manager for Tim Morgan Campaign).  . . .PAGE 1125

 

JOEY LUTTRELL (Assistant Trust Officer-

SouthTrust Bank of Huntsville-

Executor of Dr. Wilson’s Will). . .  . . . . . PAGE 1145

 

EUEL DEAN CAGLE (Betty Wilson’s

Brother-in-Law). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PAGE 1170

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Continued from Volume II Page 732

of work you do when you are not in school?

A     Yes, I do.

Q     What is that?

A     I work at the Huntsville Public Library.

Q     How long have you been there at the library?

A     A year and a half.

Q     Were you working there during May of last year as part of that year and a half?

A     Yes.

Q     Jennifer, you and I have met and spoken once before; is that right?

A     Yes, we have.

Q     Do you mind if I call you Jennifer?

A     No.

Q     You don't mind?

A     No, sir.

Q     Do you know Mrs. Betty Wilson here?

A     Yes, I do.

Q     Was she a customer of yours there at the library?

A     Once.

Q     I'm sorry?

A     I can only recall one time.

 

Page 733

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q    Only one time. Did you know Mrs. Wilson through some activity other than the library?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Back before May of 1992, you did?

A    Yes.

Q    Is that right?

A    Yes.

  Q   How long had you known Mrs. Wilson?

A    Since the first of the year.

Q    Of ‘92?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay.  Now, did Mrs. Wilson ever come into the Huntsville Library while you were working there?

A    Yes, she did.

Q    And why was she there or what did she do there?

A    She checked out a book.

Q    And was anyone with her?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you remember who that was?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    Who was it?

A    Her husband.

 

Page 734

 

 

 

 

 

Q    And who was that?

A    Jack Wilson.

Q    Did you know him?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    How did you know him?

A    I believe my father went to him.    He was his optometrist.

So lie was your father's doctor, then, or his eye doctor, I guess you might say?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Was he a customer at the library, also, or did you just know him because he was a doctor?

A    I knew him because he was a doctor.

Q    What did Mrs. Wilson do there, by the way?

A    She checked out a book.

Q    When was that?

A    When was that?

Q    Yes.

A    I don't recall.

Q    Well, do you remember talking to me over at the Huntsville Police Department back in, oh, seems like a year ago but I guess it was two or

 

 

 

Page 735

 

 

 

 

three weeks ago?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    Let me let you look at this book,

Jennifer. Would you like to look at it? This is already  in evidence, by the way, as State's Exhibit No. 8 -- or excuse me -- 8.    The jury has already seen it, it's been passed around, that is.      Do you recognize that book?

A    No.

Q    Not at all?

A    I recognize it from the picture you showed  me, but other than that, I don't.

Q    Well, did you check out a book to Mrs. Wilson  that night?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    What kind of book was it?

A    A book on Sleeping Beauty.

Q    Okay.   Is this the book or a copy of the book?

A    I don't remember what the book looked like.

Q    You don't remember what the book looked like?

A    No.

 

 

Page 736

 

 

 

 

 

Q    What did you and Mrs. Wilson talk about? Did she ask you -- as a matter of fact, did she ask you about a book?

A    Yes, she did.

Q    What did she ask you about?

A    She asked me if I would help her locate a book on the ballet Sleeping Beauty.

Q    On the ballet Sleeping Beauty.  Did she tell you why she was interested in that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Why was that?

A    She was planning to see the ballet Sleeping Beauty and she wanted additional information on it.

Q    And did you know about this book?

A    No, sir.

Q    Did you have to look up a card or look it up on a computer?

A    Yes.

Q    How did you do that?

A    I did a subject search through our computer.

Q    Looking for what?

A    Looking for the subject Sleeping Beauty.

 

Page 737

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q     Okay. And what book did you find for

her? Was there more than one book?

A     I don't recall.

Q     You don't recall?

A     No.

Q     Did you go and get a book for her?

A     Yes, I did.

 Q      All right. And we showed you a

photograph, I think, a couple of weeks ago of that book, did we not?

A     Yes.

Q     And wasn't it the title of the book which you got for her?

A     Yes.

Q     Sleeping Beauty and the Firebird?

A     Correct.

Q     All right.  Now, you tried to -- I think you had to determine whether or not you were -- what day you were working, did you not?

A     Yes.

Q     On the day to find out what day that was. Did you go back and make a check to try to help find out what day it was you checked this book out?

A     Yes, sir.

 

 

Page 738

 

 

Q    What day was that?

A    I don't remember.

Q    You don't remember?

A    No.

Q    How long ago was it that you went back

and checked?

A    Over three weeks ago.

Q    Let me show you -- this is into evidence. Let me show you this card that's in the book. What is that, do you know?

A    It's a date due card.

Q    What is the date that's the last date on there?

A    May 20th.

Q    Didn't we talk about that -- or did we talk about that when we asked about when the book would have been checked out?

A    Yes.

Q    And how long are books checked out for?

A    14 days.

Q    14 days.  So what would this indicate, then, with a date due of May 20, 1992, about when the book was checked out?

A    It would have been checked out May 6th.

 

Page 739

 

Q    May 6th.  Did you work on May 6th?

A    I'm not sure.   I think it was the first Tuesday or something.    I work every Tuesday and Thursday, so if it was Tuesday or Thursday I was there.

Q    Okay.  Did you have any other discussion with Mrs.  Wilson about the book?

 A   No.

Q    Would it be your testimony that this is either the book that you checked out to her or a copy of it? Let me let you look at it.     You have been there a year and a half, this is a book from the Huntsville Public Library, is it not?

A    Yes, it is, but we check out 4,000 books a day.

Q    4,000 books a day. But how many books about fairy tales, the Sleeping Beauty and the Firebird, have you acquired for Mrs. Wilson ever?

A    Only one.

MR. COOK:   I apologize to counsel and I apologize to the Court.    We stipulate and agree that she checked out the book.    If that's what's in issue, why, it's agreed that she did.

MR. FRY: Thank you, Mr. Cook. The

 

 

Page 740

 

 

 

stipulation is this is the book she checked out?

  MR. COOK: Absolutely.

MR. FRY: Thank you very much, Ms. Wilson.  Have a nice trip back to Huntsville.

THE COURT: Hold on.   They may have some questions.

MR. HOOPER:  I may have one or two questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q    Ms. Wilson, how are you doing?

A    Fine.

Q    I believe I met you a couple of weeks ago; is that correct?

A    Yes, it is.

Q    Okay.  Was that sometime after you had had a conversation with Mr. Fry?

A    Yes, sir, it was.

Q    Okay.  And after that conversation did you report or have an occasion to talk to some members of the library about the way you were treated over there?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Mr. Fry didn't ask you about this book

 

Page 741

 

 

 

 

 

and whether or not it was renewed; is that correct?

A    He asked me if it could have been

renewed.

Q    I mean, today he has not asked you about

it at all,  has he?

A    No, he hasn't.

Q    Now, this book was renewed on Saturday, May the 23rd?

A    Correct.

Q    Who renewed that book?

A    I did.

Q    Okay. Mrs. Wilson, had she ever attended anything or did anything over at your high school?

A    Yes, she had.

Q    Was it a program?

A    Yes, there was.

Q    What kind of program was it?

A    It was a drug awareness day that I organized.

Q    Okay.  And she was a speaker?

A    Yes.

Q    What was the topic?

A    She came as a spokesperson for Alcoholics Anonymous  and talked to psychology classes on the

 

 

Page 742

 

 

 

aspects of drug abuse.

Q     And were you impressed with her talk?

A     Yes .

Q     When did you find out about Dr. Jack Wilson's death?

A     On the day after it happened, that Saturday.

Q     I guess it was upsetting to you; is that correct?

A     Yes.

Q     Did you send a card or anything to the family?

A     Yes, I did.

Q     Why did you re-check out or renew the book?

A     I didn't have my address book with me at the library, and I wanted to send her a card on my break.  So I looked up her card to get her address, and I saw she had a book out and thought that perhaps her library books wouldn't be the first thing on her mind.  So I went ahead and renewed her book.

Q     Okay.  Back when Mr. Fry was talking to you or the police were talking to you, did they ask

 

 

Page 743

 

 

 

 

 

you about whether or not Mrs. Wilson had given you a little calling card or something of that nature?

A    I think I brought that up.

Q    Okay.  And could you find it?

A    No.

Q    And did he threaten you to search your house,  if you didn't find it, with a search

warrant.

A    Yes, he did.

MR. HOOPER: Your witness.

MR. FRY:  I was through with the witness. Thank you.

THE COURT: What's that?

MR. FRY:  No more questions.

THE COURT:   You may be excused, please, ma'am. Thank you.

KEITH TUCKER

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    If you will, tell the jury who you are, please.

A    Keith Tucker.

 

 

Page 744

 

 

Q    And, Keith, where are you from?

A     I'm from Guntersville.

Q     From Guntersville. What do you do in Guntersville?

A     At this time I work for Guntersville Sheet Metal where I'm a welder.

Q     Are you married?

A     Yes, sir, I am.

Q     Kids?

A     Not yet.  We have one on the way.

Q     Got one on the way?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     How soon on the way?

A     In about six months.

Q     All right. Where were you working back in May  of last year?

A     I was a security officer at Lake Guntersville State Park.

Q     A security officer?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     What did that job involve?

A     Okay.  I work at the front gate, which involved checking in all vehicles and personnel that entered the park, and registering in the

 

 

Page 745

 

 

guests that came in after normal park hours.

Q    What kind of state park is that? What is there at Guntersville State Park or State Lodge?

A    Well, they have a lodge motel, there is a beach, multiple activities, you know, as far as fishing or hiking.  It's basically a state-owned resort.

Q    And is that located near Guntersville?

A    Yes, sir, it's about five miles out of Guntersville.

Q    Is that in Marshall County?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    On the river?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, is there a main road coming from

town or coming from the direction of Guntersville that you turn off of to get to the park, in general?

A    Yes, sir.  Once -- well, there is Highway 227, which runs directly into Guntersville and it leads straight out to the park.

Q    Where is the gate that you spoke of located?

A    Okay.  It's about 150 feet off of Highway 227 going towards the entrance at the park.

 

 

Page 746

 

 

 

Q    Can you get into any part of the park itself  without going by the front gate?

A    There is one other entrance which is constantly fenced off, has a gate and it's constantly locked.   So basically that would be the only entrance in other  than on the water.

Q    I guess when we say "entrance," we are actually talking about a roadway?

A    Yes, sir, that would be the only

entrance.

Q    There is not a big fence around the whole park, in other words?

A    No, sir.

Q    Is this the gate where you were working back in May of last year?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, how long had you been working there?

A    At that time I would say about four

months.

Q    Were you familiar with the park and the area around the park?

A    Yes, sir.  I grew up there.  I live very near by.

Q    Was there another fellow working security

 

 

Page 747

 

 

 

that night, also?

A     Yes, sir, altogether there was about four of us.

Q     Who were the other folks?

A     Okay. There was Robert Hawkins, he is another security officer.    Benny Bobo, which is a conservation officer.    And I can't think of the

other guy’s name right  off, another security

officer at the lodge itself.

Q     Mr. Hawkins here today?

A     Yes, sir, he is.

Q     All right.  Now, how far is it from the front gate of Guntersville State Park to walk to

the lodge?

A     Roughly three and a half miles.

Q     Three and a half miles?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     What kind of road is that between the

gate and the lodge?

A     From the gate , the first half mile or so

is a nicely paved road, then it Y's off and starts

up the mountain, which is a paved gravel road.

Q     Okay. And  does that go all the way   to the lodge then?

 

 

Page 748

 

 

 

A     Yes, it does.

Q     Does it go up a mountain, did you say?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Is it a twisting, curving road?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Are there some other things there inside the park, also, and not just the lodge?

A     Right.  As I said, there's multiple activities in there.   There's campgrounds, there's the motel built onto the lodge, there is challets, cabins, there's a beach and a couple of boat ramps, quite a few different things.

Q     Now, do you remember seeing or hearing about the murder of the doctor over in Huntsville last spring?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Sometime after that were you contacted by some policeman in reference to that case?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Do you remember when that would have

been?

A     I'm going to say somewhere around maybe the 22nd or 23rd.

Q     The murder, the crime or when you were

 

 

Page 749

 

 

 

 

 

contacted?

A      When I was contacted, I can't say for sure.   A couple of weeks afterwards.

Q      A couple of weeks after it happened?

A      Right.

Q      All right.   And who contacted you, do you remember that?

A      Officer Nunley and Officer Brantley.

Q      Brantley?

A      Yes, sir.

Q      The fellow behind me?

A      Yes, sir.

Q      Can you see him?

A      Yes, sir.

Q      They were from the Huntsville Police Department; is that     right?

A      Right.

Q      Where did you talk to them; where were

you when they talked to you?

A      Okay.  I was at the main park office, which is directly on Highway 227.

Q      Did you give them a statement?

A      Yes, sir.

Q      Do you remember back a couple of weeks

 

 

Page 750

 

 

before then,, was there a time when a gentleman -- well , what did they ask you about, let me ask you that.

A     Basically what had happened on the night, you know, that this had taken place, what I remembered about it, the description I could give

on the vehicles or the people.

Q     Did an event occur there at the gate the same night?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Okay.

A     What had happened on that, Mr. White had approached the gate after normal closing hours, which would be 9: 00 p.m. and wanted access into

the lodge.

Q     And when would that have been in relation to the murder?

A     There was just a few days in between, I couldn't give you a specific date on that.

Q     Okay. But before the murder?

A     Right.

Q     All right. What happened?

A     Okay. I advised him that the park was closed to non-registered guests and that he would

 

 

Page 751

 

not be allowed in.    At this time I didn't know his name.  He told me who he was, who he needed to see, and I believe he offered me his drivers license to hold if I would let him to in and pick up -- to

begin with, I think he needed to pick up a package.

Q    All right.

A    And I explained to him that --

reiterated again on my procedures and why I

couldn't  let him in.   And he said he had driven a pretty long distance   and that he actually needed to pick up a book.   He would be in there just a few minutes and come back out.

Q    So did you let him in?

A    No, sir, I did not.

Q    Do you remember what kind of vehicle he was in, Mr. Tucker?

A    Okay.   He was in a dark-colored pickup truck,  probably four-wheel drive, just from looking at it.

Q    Do you remember anything else about the truck?

A    It had chrome wheels on it and the left quarter panel or the driver's side quarter panel

was a different color than the rest of the truck.

 

 

Page 752

 

 

 

 

Q    Let me let you look at what's been marked for identification as State's Exhibit No. P-58 and let you look at that picture, Mr. Tucker.

A    Yes, sir, that's the truck he was in.

Q    Does that look like the truck he was in?

A    Yes , sir.

Q    You described a pickup with a quarter panel damaged or painted and did you mention the wheel covers or the rims?

A    Yes, sir, chrome wheels.

MR. FRY: We move this into evidence, State's Exhibit No. P-58 -- excuse me, that's P-59.

THE COURT: It's admitted.

Q    Well, what did he do?

A    He said that it was important that he get in touch with Mrs. Wilson  and asked about his options, and basically the only option I could give him would be to go to a pay phone and contact her at the lodge.

Q    Was there a pay phone nearby?

A    There was a pay phone about two miles

away at another store, there was a pay phone outside.

Q    Did you tell him where that pay phone

 

 

Page 753

 

 

 

 

 

was?

A    Yes    sir.

Q    Did he leave?

A    Yes    sir.

Q    How long -- well, did he come back?

A    Yes, sir, he did.

Q    How long was he gone?

A    Approximately 15, maybe 20 minutes.

Q    What-happened when he got back?

A    Okay.  He came back, he again drove up to the guard  shack at the gate, he advised me that he had spoken with Mr. Stork, which is the dispatcher at the lodge or was at that time, and that Mrs. Wilson or someone would be bringing the book down

to him.  I advised him, you know, if he wanted to wait that was up to him, that he would have to wait outside the gate.   So I had him to back out of the gate and he parked on the side of the road next to the entrance.

Q    All right.   So he was waiting?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    What happened after he pulled over to the side and began waiting?

A    Okay.  I can't remember exactly if I

 

 

Page 754

 

 

 

radioed the lodge or if they radioed me first, to confirm that someone was coming down to meet with him.

Q     So you were notified someone was coming down, anyway, one way or another?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Did they come down?

A     Yes, sir, they did.

Q     How long did that take, in your best judgment?

A     Just a few minutes, maybe another 15 or

20 minutes.

Q     And were you there when that person arrived?

A     Yes, sir, I was.

Q     Who was it?

A     It was Robert Hawkins.

Q     What happened when Mr. Hawkins got there?

A     He pulled up to the guard shack, pointed

towards the vehicle sitting outside the gate, and asked if that was the gentleman he was supposed to see.   I advised him it was, and he pulled on over to Mr. White's truck.    And at that point I was tied up with a couple of other vehicles, so that's

 

 

Page 755

 

 

 

 

 

basically

Q    Did you hear or see Mr. White or this gentleman, who was getting the book, say or do anything after that?

A    I didn't hear any of the conversation.   I believe I saw him, you know, when he handed Mr.

White the book. Like. I said, I was tied up with a couple of other vehicles, in the process of registering them into the park.

Q    And how do you know this was a Mr. White?

A    Okay. There, again, when the original

time he came down there and was trying to enter the gate, he told me his name and offered me his drivers license if I would let him in.

Q    To let him in?

A    Right.

Q    Did you see him leave?

A    I don't believe I did.  I can't recall

for sure.

Q    Were other people coming and going?

A    Yes, sir, I had gotten busy again about that time.

Q    And you were letting some people in; is that right, if they were guests? Is that what you

 

 

Page 756

 

 

 

 

said a moment ago?

A     Yes. Right.

Q     Turning other people away?

A     Right.  A registered guest could come and go as they pleased, they had to show proof that they were registered, such as a room key, if they were staying at the lodge or motel, or campground pass,

if they were staying at the campground.

Q     Is it your, testimony you saw Mr. White taking something that looked like a book?

A     Yes, sir.

MR. FRY: Answer whatever questions these gentlemen have, if you can.

MR. HOOPER:  I would like to see his statement.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q     Mr. Tucker, did you give the police a written statement?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Okay.

MR. HOOPER: Have you got it?

MR. FRY: You got it.

MR. HOOPER: But I don't have it with me

 

 

Page 757

 

 

and I would Like to see his original statement.

MR. FRY : I can show you my copy.

MR. HOOPER:  That would be fine.

(Brief pause.)

Q    Mr. Tucker, at the time that you saw this individual and he told you he was going up looking to get a book out of a car, a BMW, did he not tell you the color of the car at that time?

A    I can't say for sure, but I don't believe he did.

Q    Okay.  You don't recall telling the

police that he said it was a gray BMW?

A    Not right off.  That may be possible, but right off, like I said, I  can't remember.

Q    If you can, try to recall the

individual's demeanor and  manner; how was he

acting?

A    He wasn't nervous or anything.

Q    Well, what I'm getting at, was he kind of a horse's patoot down there at the gate?

A    Not actually.  You know, he looked like

he was capable of it, I would say that.

Q    Okay.

A    But he was -- for me it was a typical

 

 

Page 758

 

 

 

night, someone coming in, you know, with a new ploy just about every night, trying to get past me at the gate.

Q    Well, he sure wasn't trying to be secretive, was he?

A    Not particularly.

Q    I believe you stated he even gave you his license is that correct?

A    He offered them to me.

Q    Offered them to you?

A    I did not accept them.

Q    Okay.  I believe you stated that you told him where  the nearest phone was; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And how far did you say it was?

A    About two, two and a half miles.

Q    Is that road -- does it have any lights

on it?

A    The highway itself?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    Very few.

Q    Now, this is at a point in time when it's night, it's dark; right?

A    Right.

 

 

Page 759

 

 

Q   And let's say from the gate up to the lodge, there is no lighting on that road either, is there?

A   Not past the gate, there is not.

Q   Would you call the area between the lodge and your  gate a secluded area?

A   Basically it would be.

  Q   How would you describe the area between the gate,  where you are posted, and the phone booth that you directed him to?

A   Well, from my gate to the other entrance, which is about a mile, there is another street

light there.   Then the main office is about a half a mile past there, which is pretty well lit. From

that point on you are going up another mountain which is -- you know, it would be another secluded area.

Q   Do you travel that road very often?

A   Yes, sir, I do.

Q   Are there a number of places that cars could pull over and people could meet on that secluded road?

A   There is on the road itself .  You really

can't leave the road.

 

 

Page 760

 

 

 

Q    But there is a number of places on that road; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is there anything to prevent a guest from the lodge leaving the lodge and passing through the gate?

A    No, sir.

 Q    And if you  are registered at the lodge, you can pass through the gate and come back and get in, can you not?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    I believe you stated that when he first got there or the first message you heard was that

the book would be brought down by either the lady or a guard; right?

A    Right.

Q    And it was brought down by a guard?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Did you have a subsequent occasion to

ever see this -- where is the -- this vehicle that's identified as State's Exhibit P-59?

A    I saw it again when the officers first came to take my statement.

Q    Okay. Mr. Tucker, I'll ask you to look

 

 

Page 761

 

 

 

 

 

at a statement I borrowed from Mr. Fry. I'll ask

you to look at that, maybe to refresh your recollection. Just kind of read through that statement.

(Brief pause.)

A     Okay.

Q     Okay. So the first time you saw this vehicle was what, May the 16th?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     And then I believe you told him that you had another occasion to see it, did you not?

A     Not the vehicle itself, a picture of it.

Q     Oh, just a picture of it?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     When I look at your statement it said

down here, "The truck I described on my first statement  came in the park about a week after this incident and it was from Blount.

A     Blount County.

Q     "-- Blount County."

A     Right. What I did on that, I had -- there was another black truck had come in and I had gotten the two mixed up.  I went back through my records

and looked up the tag number, the name off of that

 

 

Page 762

 

 

 

vehicle.

Q     Okay.

A     So I could get the two straight.

Q     So you are satisfied now it was not the same vehicle?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Did you get close to this individual to determine  whether or not he was under the influence of any alcohol?     

A     I was standing within a couple of feet of him.  I don't believe he was.

Q     Okay.

A     If he was, you know, it was well masked.

Q     What about his speech, anything particular about his speech?

A     Nothing more, I guess, than the local drawl.

Q     Did he ever get out of his vehicle?

A     No, sir, he didn't.

Q     So you just observed him in the vehicle; is that correct?

A     Right.

Q     And what's the closest distance that you got to him?

 

 

Page 763

 

 

 

 

 

A    Like I said. about a couple of feet.

Q    Okay.

MR. HOOPER:  No further questions.

MR. FRY:  Just a couple of other things. REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    You may have said it and I was going through these documents, I hope I didn't miss it. About what time was it that he actually came?

A    Somewhere between 10:00 and 10:30.

Q    Somewhere between 10:00 and 10:30?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And what time on that night did you close

that gate; how long had it been closed?

A    It closed at 9:00 p.m.  So anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half.

Q    So it had already been closed since 9 o'clock?

A    Right.

MR. FRY: I believe that is all.

THE COURT:  Any more questions?

MR. HOOPER: Just a minute.

(Brief pause.)

MR. HOOPER:  No further questions.

 

 

Page 764

 

 

THE COURT: All right.

MR. FRY:  That is all we have.   We would ask that the witness --

THE COURT: Mr. Tucker, you may be excused.

MR. FRY:  -- be excused?   Yes, sir.

ROBERT HAWKINS

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:         

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q     Can you tell us who you are and what you do, please, sir?

A     My name is Robert Hawkins, I'm a security officer.

Q     And, Robert, where are you from?

A     Albertville, Alabama.

Q     Is that your home?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Did you grow up around there?

A     More or less.

Q     More or less?

A     Yeah, there and DeKalb County some.

Q     Are you married?

 

 

Page 765

 

 

 

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you have any kids?

A    I've got two.

Q    Two?

A    Yes.

Q    Back last spring, more particularly in May of last year, where were you working?

A    Lake-Guntersville State Park.

Q    What did you do there?

A    I was a security officer.

Q    What were your duties as a security

guard?

A    We more or less kept patrol over the

park, buildings, parking lot, whatever come up.

Q    How long had you been there in May of

last year? As of May of last year, how long had you been a security guard there?

A    I believe just a little over a year.

Q    Okay.  And did you work all over the

place or was there one particular part of the park where you worked?

A    More or less I patrolled -- or mine and

my partners, it consisted of mainly the lodge, and we would change patrol and one would patrol

 

 

Page 766

 

outside, one-would patrol inside.

Q    Now, back last year, do you remember last spring, did you see on the news or hear about the doctor over in Huntsville, Dr. Wilson, being

killed?

A    I believe so.

Q    Did you talk to the police about that after it happened?

A    Yeah. Two detectives, I believe, come over to the state park and talked to us.

Q    Okay. What did they talk to you about?

A    They wanted us to identify some pictures, if we had seen anybody at the lodge or had seen some people there, and they showed us different pictures and asked us if we could pick out anybody we had

seen there and we did.

Q    Pictures of a man or woman?

A    Both.

Q    Both.  Did you pick one out?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Who was it; do you know?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Who was the fellow?

A    Which one you referring to, man or woman?

 

 

Page 767

 

 

Q    The man.

A    The man was James White.

Q    James White.   Now, how did you -- had you come  into some contact with James White?

A    Before this time?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    No, sir.

Q    At the park?

A    At the park, the only contact I had with James White was to deliver him a book.

Q    When was that? About what time was that? I don't mean of the evening, but in relationship to when you heard about the doctor being killed or the policeman coming to see you, either one, how long had it been since you had seen James White?

A    From the time I had seen the detectives,

I guess, a couple of weeks, something like that, or a little longer.

Q    Do you remember what night it  was that

you saw him?

A    I believe it was on a Saturday night.

Q    All right.  Saturday night.   Do you remember anything about what was going on at the lodge that evening?

 

 

Page 768

 

 

A     Yes, sir, we had an AA convention going on.

Q     Is that a big deal?

A     Pretty much.  They had pretty much consumed the whole lodge.

Q     How big is that lodge?

A     Pretty big.

Q     They consumed the whole lodge?

A     Well, more or less.  They take care of all the rooms and all.  I don't mean eat it.

Q     You might want to think about that.

A     They pretty much fill it up.

 Q     They drink a lot of coffee, I bet, don't they?

A     I tell you.

Q     About how many people do you think were there at the lodge that night?

A     Several hundred.

Q     Several hundred?

A     Yes.

Q     Does that mean two to three hundred?

A     I would guesstimate over 300, probably.

Q     Over 300?

A     Yeah.

 

 

Page 769

 

 

 

 

Q    Now, where is the lodge in relationship

to the front gate there at Guntersville?

A    It's approximately two miles up on top of the mountain.

Q    And where were you working that evening?

A    I was working --

Q    Were you at the gate or all over the rest of the place?

A    That night I believe was my turn to work inside the lodge.

Q    Did you get a call or did you receive a message to contact a guest there at the lodge that night?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And who were you to contact?

A    Betty Wilson.

Q    Betty Wilson.  Do you know what time it was when you got that message?

A    I think it was somewhere around 10:00, somewhere around in there.

Q    Okay.

A    If I remember right.

Q    10 o'clock. What time does the gate

close?

 

 

Page 770

 

 

A    Gate closes at 9 o'clock.

Q    Was the gate closed when you got the message?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    What was the message?

A    The message we were to deliver was she

was to  come to the front gate -- or excuse me, come to the front desk, there was somebody waiting at

the front gate for her for a book.

Q    Okay. And you were looking for her, is that what you said?

A    Right.

Q    Did you find her?

A    She came to the desk. I had left word with some   of the groups and some of them said they knew her,   they would get word to her. As I was coming up   -- I didn't know her at the time, but she was approaching the front desk, and I just kind of, guess, eased on up there, and the front desk clerk, he told her the message and told me I could deliver the book for her or she could, either one.      And I was volunteered.

Q    You were volunteered.     What do you mean by that?

 

 

Page 771

 

 

 

 

A     Yes, sir, I was told I could do it.

Q     She was offered either to take it herself or for you to take it?

A     Yeah.

Q     So who decided you would take it?

A     Well, being nice about the matter, I

me and the front desk clerk decided I would take it.

 Q     You and the desk clerk or the front desk

clerk decided you would take it?

A     More or less him.

Q     Did you have other things to do at that time, Robert?

A     Well, we were busy patrolling on -- I

was, on the inside.  The convention like it is, you have to watch the people and make sure nobody is

hurt or falls off the balcony out back. It has happened.

Q     How about the parking lot, was the

parking lot full that night?

A     Pretty much.

Q     Pretty much.  Okay.  Let me back up just a minute.  You say you heard -- did you hear Mrs. Wilson and the clerk have a conversation about the book?

 

 

Page 772

 

 

A     She told him -- or he told her that there was somebody at the gate.     I didn't hear the name he spoke, that somebody was waiting for a book, and it went from there.

Q     So what did you do after --  by the way, what  did she look like?

A     Short hair, I guess brunette.

Q     She a nice-looking lady?

A     Pretty nice.

Q     What did you do then with Mrs. Wilson,

did you go  somewhere with her?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Where did y’all go?

A     We walked out the front door and went

from there  to the parking lot where she was parked.

Q     Now, tell the jury about this parking

lot.   There is probably some of them, I'm going to bet, that haven't been to Guntersville State Lodge, maybe they have, but what kind of parking lot is out there?   Is it a big parking lot or little parking lot?

A     Yes, sir, it's a fairly big parking lot. You have got several sections of it, divided off by

a median and stuff.    Some of it kind of hilly like.

 

 

Page 773

 

 

 

Q     Robert, I'm going to ask you to do something for me.   Do you think you could draw just a simple sketch of  the lodge and what the parking lot looked like on  this board for me?

A     I'll try.  No promises.

Q     Now, we are not going to grade you for artwork, okay?

A     All right.

Q     First draw  the lodge and then we will let you draw -- and whenever you say something,

remember this gentleman over here behind me has got to hear you say it, okay?

A     Okay.

Q     Talk loud enough for him to hear you.

Just take your time, just forget about the fact

that 300 people are watching you.

A     We have got a wing that comes here and comes down thataway.

(Brief pause.)

A     Okay.  You have a parking lot area --

Q     I tell you what do, just finish your drawing and then we are going to let you stand back and show the jury.

MR. COOK:   If Your Honor please, I'm

 

 

Page 775

 

 

 

Have you made a sketch of the way the parking is there?

A    Yes, sir, more or less.

Q    Okay. Would you describe for the jury what you have drawn there as it applies to the way your parking lot is.

A    Okay.  This would be your lodge here and you have  out-front parking for 15 minutes or less right here.   Security would park right in here, but that night everybody parked there.    You have got a parking lot on A Wing, goes on around to right here. This here is just trees.   Go around here, you have got a larger parking lot here, and you go straight across and you have another parking lot.     It goes on around to B Wing, there is a parking lot all the way around through here.   Okay.  This right here comes into the parking area right here.

Q    Robert, use your pointer while you have got it there. Where were you and Mrs. Wilson when you first met up with her?

A    Okay.  We was inside the lodge at the front desk.

Q    At the front desk?

A    Yes, sir.

 

 

Page 776

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q    Just basically where is that on the building part?

A    You walk inside the lodge, you would walk approximately across here to the other side, it would be somewhere around in there.

Q    You were instructed to go with her and to take a book down to the gate; is that right?

A    I was instructed to go with her to her car, she was going to give me a book, then I would carry it to Mr. White.

Q    Now, did you go to her car with her?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    How did you get down there? Did you have a car or did you walk?

A    We walked to the car.

Q    How far was it from the building to the car?

A    Okay.  We left the lodge here and we come out down through there, and there is some trees right in here going to this right here, and walked across there and she was parked right there.

Q    What kind of car was it, if you remember?

A    I can't remember the make of the car. It

was a dark-colored car, is all I can remember.

 

 

Page 777

 

 

 

 

Q    All right.  Did you get the book out of the car?

A    No, sir, she did.

Q    She did?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Was the car locked?

A    No, sir.

Q    She got the book out; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Did you see her do that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Where was the book?

A    In the back seat.

Q    In the back seat?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Your recollection is the car was not locked?

A    That's right.

Q    What were you doing while she was in the car?

A    I was just down there waiting on her to get the book out.

Q    What did she do after she had gotten the book out?

 

 

Page 778

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A       She got the book out and she handed it to me, and I asked her if there was anything she wanted me to tell him, and she said, "Yeah," said, "give

him the book and tell him to have a good time, don't lose the book."

Q       "Have a good time and don't lose the book"'?

A       Y e a h.

Q       Now, were     there other cars around her

car?

A       Yes,   sir.

Q       How many cars were in those parking lots that night, in your best judgment, Robert?

A       The parking lot that night was pretty

full to the extent where she was parked at. The lower part down here, this part right here, was scarce, and this area right here was a little

scarce right in here, but the rest of it was pretty full.

Q       And you said you had how many people in the lodge?

A       A couple of hundred, around three or

more.

Q       What did you do after you took the book?

 

 

Page 779

 

 

 

 

A    Okay.

Q    Did you have any more conversation with Mrs. Wilson?

A    No, sir.  After I got the book, we walked back to the front of the lodge, and she went inside and I got in my truck and carried the book to the front gate.

      Q    Okay. And you have sketched on your diagram a  road going from the parking lots.   And is that to scale? It's   not, is it?

A    Well --

Q    How far is it from the parking lot down

to the gate, Robert?

A    From the parking lot to the gate it's two miles.

Q    Did you drive down there?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    You all have a security vehicle?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    or a car?

A    We have got a truck we drive.

Q    Now, before this time, had you seen or heard of the person that you were delivering the book to?

 

 

Page 780

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A     Before meeting her, no, sir.

Q     So you went down to the front gate; is that right?

A     Yeah.

Q     And what did you see or what happened

when you got down there?

A     When I got to the front gate, I pulled on the farside. --The gate would be on this side of the road coming straight down, it would be right here.

Keith Tucker, he was busy logging in a few cars, and Mr. White's vehicle was parked just outside the

gate a little further down.

Q     What kind of vehicle was that?

A     It was a pickup truck. Gray or

something, I can't remember exactly.  But he was parked there, and I walked over and asked him if he was the fellow that was waiting on the book, and he said, yeah, and he had driven a long way, driven

from Birmingham, I think he said.  And then I just more or less, have a good night, and he backed out and that was it.

Q     Did you give him the message from Mrs. Wilson?

A     Yeah.

 

 

Page 781

 

 

 

 

 

Q    What did you tell him?

A    I told him, "She said have a good night, don't lose the book."

Q    All right.

A    He said, "Okay."

Q    And he took off?

A    Yes.

Q    All right.  What did you do after that,

go back to the lodge?

A    Yes, sir. Resumed patrol after that.

MR. FRY: Robert, thank you. Thank you for your patience with me.   If you will, I'm sure

Mr. Hooper has some questions for you.

MR. HOOPER: Robert, I'll let you stand

up there.

MR. FRY:  Can I do one more thing,

Charlie?

MR. HOOPER: Sure.

MR. FRY:  I got carried away with this drawing.  Take your seat, Robert.   That is, I almost forgot the book.

Q    (By Mr. Fry:) Let me show you what's

been marked as State's Exhibit Number 8 and let you look at that, Robert.  Don't read it, now, just look

 

 

Page 782

 

 

 

at it.

A    Okay.

MR. HOOPER: Mr. Fry, we stipulated

that's the book.

MR. FRY: Thanks.  I want him to look at it.

Q    Have you seen that before?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is that the book Mrs. Wilson gave you?

A    Yes.

Q    And you gave to Mr. White?

A    Yes.

MR. FRY: That's all. Thank you.

THE COURT: Cross-examination.

MR. HOOPER: Robert, let me get you to walk back up here, and I'll just get up here with you. Okay?

THE WITNESS: All right.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q    Let me get your pool cue up here and, I tell you what, if you will, stand right there and we won't block anybody. This area right over here of what you have got drawn up, is this where there is

 

 

Page 783

 

 

 

 

some chalets?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay. And is there a roadway that comes near this parking area right over here?

A    Yes, sir, the roadway would come up and --

Q    I tell you what, just go ahead and mark

it.   

A    You have a roadway that would come on down, sort of like this, and come up and kind of

 

 

make a little circle there and goes on down a little further to the other chalets.

Q    And, Robert, is there better-lit areas in this parking lot than others? Are some better lit than other places?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay.  In fact, do you have pretty good lighting going up into the entrance right in

through here?

A    Pretty much.

Q    Okay. Then you have some lighting to the side; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So where this car would be parked, would

 

 

Page 784

 

 

be about as well lit as you are going to get; is

that right?

A   Well, the lighting in the whole parking lot, not trying to defer or nothing, but the best lighting would be right there in front of the

lodge.

Q   Yeah, but you can't park there?

A-  No, sir, just 15 minutes.

Q   Sure. So if you can't park there --

A   You have got sparse lighting in through here.

Q   But this is about as well as you're going to get?

A   At the time.

Q   All right.   Now, if you wanted to hide a car out there, are there some areas that you can park and pretty well -- more secluded areas?

A   Yes, sir, there are more secluded areas than that.

Q   All right.   I'll let you sit down.

A   Appreciate it.

(Brief pause.)

Q   Robert, when you walked Mrs. Wilson out there, did y’all chit-chat?

 

 

Page 785

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A     No, sir.

Q     Well , did she seem to be all right?

A     Yeah.

Q     Kind of a friendly sort of a lady?

A     Yeah, she seemed pretty nice.

Q     In fact, did you walk her back up to the lodge?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     In fact, did you take her back to the front door there?

A     I walked her back up to the entrance to the lodge, not up to the front door, but from there she went on inside.

Q     All right. And I had the pleasure of visiting in your home here several weeks ago; is that right?

A     Yeah.

Q     And I believe I brought a video out to you for you to look at; is that correct?

A     Yes.

Q     All right.

(Brief pause.)

Q     Robert, I'll let you look at what's been marked as  Defendant's Exhibit 23, and has that got

 

 

Page 786

 

 

 

 

 

your initials somewhere?

A    Yeah, right there.

Q    And did you view that video?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And did it fairly and accurately depict and portray the lodge and the parking area that you have described up here?

A   Yes, sir.

Q    Does it also depict the area where Mrs.

Wilson parked her car?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay.

MR. HOOPER: Judge, we would offer Defendant's Exhibit 23.

MR. FRY:  No objection.

THE COURT:  23 is admitted.

MR. HOOPER: All right.   We are going to have to find somebody that knows how to operate

this machine.

Q    Robert, if you would, I tell you what, I would like for you -- let's let you stand over here, if you would, and we will play this, and, if you would, describe exactly what we are seeing.

(Brief pause.)

 

 

Page 787

 

 

MR. HOOPER:  Judge, can we take a break? obviously I don't have the thing ready to play.

(Brief pause.)

(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 23, the videotape, was played to the Court and jury as follows:)

A     Okay. That would be the front of the lodge there.

Q     All right. Would this be where you would have walked Mrs. Wilson?

A     Yeah.

Q     Okay.

A     We came out there.  The entrance is on

the right. And we come down those steps there.

Q     I tell you what, Robert, if you want to come over here beside it, and that way you can point, too.

A     Okay.

Q     All right.

A     We walked basically out through here, across down through this area right here.

Q     All right.

(Brief pause.)

A     We walked on the other side of this in

 

 

Page 788

 

 

 

 

 

between there.

(Brief pause.)

A     And we walked through these trees right here.   Her car was parked approximately where that one is  right there.

Q     Okay. Parked where?

A     Approximately where this one is right here.

Q     Okay.  Now, this would also depict the lighting,   would it not, the lighting up here?

A     Yes, sir, you have got lights here, here, and I think there is one light there, or is that a tree?   It may be a light.

Q     Okay.

(Brief pause.)

Q     Let me stop it right here, Robert.

A     All right.

Q     Try to -- I'll -- let's back it up just a hair.   All right.  What is this area back down in here,  please, sir?

A     Okay.  This right down here basically is road or drive that comes around.    There is a couple of parking places, you can park down in there, it's not too well lit.

 

 

Page 789

 

 

 

 

 

Q     Okay.

A     You come on around here and this is

B Wing he is showing right here, coming back again to the lodge.

Q     All right.  Would this show actually where you  walked with Mrs. Wilson, this frame?

A     Yes.

Q.    All right.

A     Well, basically you can see the front of the lodge, see right there? And we came out, kind of walked down through here, through these trees here.

Q     Okay.

(Brief pause.)

Q     All right.  Let me -- all right.  Is this the drive, main drive, coming up?

A     Yes, sir, this is the entrance to the lodge itself.

Q     And it's got lighting on it

A     Yes, sir.

Q     -- itself; is that correct?

A     Yes, sir.

(Brief pause.)

Q     Okay. You had described earlier there

 

 

Page 790

 

 

 

was some 15-minute parking; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Where would that be?

A    Okay.  Your 15-minute parking is

basically   here in front of the lodge.   After that we can determine whether or not, you know, a car has been there too long or whatever.

This area right here, more or less, is

just for  drop-off and pick-up.

Q    Robert, what is this area right down

here?

A    Okay. Right to the other side of this median here would be security parking, where we

park.  And just over the hill, down and below there would  be another parking lot.

Q    Okay.

A    Some of the employees use it, some of

them don't.

Q    That wouldn't be visible from standing up here; is that correct?

A    Standing right there?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    It would be hard to see anything.

Q    Okay.

 

 

Page 791

 

(Brief pause.)

Q     All right.   Tell us what we are looking

at right here, please, sir.

A     Okay.  That looks like the parking lot just as you come off the front of the lodge.       In other words, if you were coming from the lodge facing this way, you are coming off to your right.

Q     All right.   Is that -- would that be this area down   in here?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Okay.

A     That would be the area right there,

A Wing  parking lot, which comes on around.

Q     There are some suites at the lodge?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Where would those be?

A     Your suites would be on either corner of the A Wing  or B Wing.

Q     Let's assume that Mrs. Wilson was staying in the suite in A Wing.    Where would that be?

A     Okay.  You have got your suites top and bottom  right here.

Q     Okay.  That would be on the very corner;

is that correct?

 

 

Page 792

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And then off this parking lot, adjoining to it,  would be what?

A    Okay.  Off this parking lot coming up behind  here?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    Okay.  You would have the area I drive to come up by this chalets.

Q    And there is a drive?

A    Yes, sir.   It comes way up.   There is some steps goes  down  right there.

Q    Would that be a secluded area?

A    Yes, sir, pretty much.    In behind there.

Q    Again, this is what, the top lot?

A    Nearly.  You are right at the corner

there.

(Brief pause.)

Q    Let me stop you.   What is that, is that also maybe a better view of the suites?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay.  This would be the end of the building?

A    Yes, sir, that would be -- well, actually your suites starts off that wing, then the top

 

 

Page 793

 

 

 

suite and bottom suite.

(Brief pause.)

Q     All right. Would this -- can you tell me what this is behind the trees in here?

A     Okay.  You can barely see right there, a drive that comes up here and makes a little circle right here and comes back and goes all the way down to the-o+-her end of the chalets.

Q     Okay.

(Brief pause.)

Q     And this view would be from where?

A     You would be standing in the lower part

of the A Wing parking lot.

Q     Okay.  Cars parked in this area right

here next to this embankment, could it be viewed very easily from anyone standing up here near the front of the lodge?

A     If you are standing on back just a little piece, it would be hard to see right down in there. If you walk on out on the edge, you can see it, but it's kind of hard to see down through there.

(Brief pause.)

Q     Okay, Robert, you can go back and have a seat.

 

 

Page 794

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Whereupon, the playing of the videotape, Defendant's Exhibit 23, was concluded, and the following occurred: )

Q     Robert, are you familiar with the drive

from the gate up to the lodge?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Is that a fairly -- well, at night is it

fairly a secluded area, not very well lit?

A     From the drive all the way down to the front gate?

Q     Yes, sir.

A     After you leave the front of the lodge

you have got no lights at all.

Q     Okay. Are you, also familiar with the

road between the gate and going back towards Guntersville?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     How would you describe that road at

night?

A     Very dangerous.

Q     Okay. And is it a road that has a number of places where a car could be concealed or people could meet?

A     Yeah, there's places you could pull off.

 

 

Page 795

 

 

 

MR. HOOPER:   No further questions.    Thank you.

THE COURT:   Any more questions?

MR. FRY:   No, Your Honor, no other questions. And we would ask this witness be

excused,  Your Honor.

THE COURT:   Mr. Hawkins, you may be excused. Thank you, sir.

MR. FRY:   Call David Stork.

DAVID STORK,

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    If you will,  please, sir, state to the ladies and  gentlemen of the jury your name.

A    Dave Stork.

Q    And what do you do?

A    I'm a desk clerk at Lake Guntersville State Park.

Q    Mr. Stork, how long have you been there?

A    Two years.

Q    So you were working there in May of last year; is that right?

 

 

Page 796

 

 

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    You were employed by the park?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Are you from the Guntersville area?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And what exactly do you do there?

A    Check people in and out and just take

care of general stuff like that.

Q    What is your position now?

A    Right now?

Q    Yes.

A    I'm reservations clerk.

Q    Reservations clerk?

A    Yeah.

Q    Going back to May of last year, what were you doing at that time?

A    I was front desk clerk and back-up night auditor.

Q    Front desk clerk and --

A    Back-up night auditor.

Q    What does that mean?

A    I worked night audit when the regular auditor wasn't working.

Q    What does a night auditor do?

 

 

Page 797

 

 

 

 

A     Makes sure everything balances out for

the day and closes out the day.

Q     So you check up the -- count the money

and check the books up at the end of the day?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Handle daily receipts?

A     Right.

Q     You are not the bookkeeper?

A     No.

Q     Now, back in May of last year, you were working there and working the front desk then; is that right?

A     Right. I was working second shift.

Q     Do you remember last spring learning of the death of a doctor over in Huntsville or were you contacted about the doctor's death?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     When was that, do you remember?

A     It was a couple of weeks afterwards.

Q     After you learned about the death?

A     Yes.

Q     Did you remember anything or were you asked about someone coming to the lodge asking for

a book?

 

 

Page 798

 

 

 

A     Well, somebody coming to the gate.

Q     At the gate?

A     Looking for Betty Wilson.

Q     Do you remember that occurring?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     When was that that that happened?

A     It was approximately -- the guard called me between 9:00 and 10:00 somewhere,  and told me someone had attempted to get in the gate and he didn't let them in and they were going to be calling me.

Q     Okay.  So he told you that someone had tried to get in, he told them to go somewhere else and call you?

A     Right.

Q     What was going on at the lodge that weekend?

A     It was a mountaintop roundup gathering.

Q     And what is that?

A     It's Alcoholics Anonymous group, they

come  in and all get together every year.

Q     It's an annual event?

A     Right.

Q     Is it well attended?

 

 

Page 799

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A     Yes.  Between three and four hundred people, usually.

Q     Do you know how many people were there that night?

A     Just between three and four hundred. I don't know exactly.

Q     Were there people there at the lodge who were not with the conference?

A     No.

Q     They have the whole place rented?

A     Whole place.

Q     Whole place?

A     Yes.

Q     Between three and four hundred people?

A     Yes.

Q     After getting the call from the guard, did you receive a telephone call?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     And do you remember how long that would have  been after the guard had called?

A     Approximately 30 to 40 minutes.

Q     Okay. And do you know who called you?

A     No, sir, he never did tell me his name.

Q     Did the person identify themselves at

 

Page 800

 

a11 ?

A    He said he was someone's brother.

Q    Somebody's brother?

A    Right.

Q    Do you remember what name he said?

A    No, all I can remember is the name started with an R, but I couldn't remember the name for sure.

Q    Started with an R?

A    Right.

Q    And what did this person tell you?

A    He told me he come 200, 250 miles to pick up the book and that he really needed to get the book.  At which time I told him, you know, go back to the front gate and I will take care of it

somehow.

Q    All right. And did he tell you from whom he was supposed to get the book?

A    Betty Wilson.

Q    Betty Wilson. Now, did you know Mrs. Wilson?

A    No. I hadn't seen her up to that point.

Q    Did you know she was even a guest at the lodge?

 

Page 801

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A     Well, yeah, she was on the board.

Q     She was --

A     As being there.

Q     Being on the board is being checked in?

A     Right.

Q     So what did you do, Mr. Stork, after having received this telephone call?

A     Called up Robert Hawkins and Freeman Filmore, both security guards, and they made a search of the lodge and functions trying to find

her and locate her so we could let her know what was going on.

Q     Searched the lodge and functions, did you say?

A     Yeah, the functions, they had a bunch of different  gatherings going on.

Q     Even at 10:00 at night?

A     Yeah.

Q     How late do they go, do you know, or how late did they go?

  A     It was between 11:00 and 12:00 before I saw the last of them start to peter out the doors.

Q     So you dispatched these guys to try to find Mrs. Wilson?

 

 

Page 802

 

 

 

A    Right.

Q    Did they find her?

A    No.

Q    What happened?

A    They come back to tell me they couldn't locate her, they hit every place they could think she might be. And about three minutes after that, while they were still standing at the counter, she come in the front door, somebody told her we were looking for her.

Q    Okay.

A    At which time I told her, you know, what was going on.

Q    All right.

A    Then she was going to take the book down and I told Robert, you know, go out there and take the book down for her instead of making the guest go down to the gate.

Q    And did they do so?

A    Yes.

Q    Did she return sometime after that?

A    Not that I can recollect.

Q    Not that you recollect.   You didn't see her?

 

 

Page 803

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A    No.

Q    She very well could have, I take it?

A    Yes, I was very busy getting the revenue and stuff  done.

Q    When you gave her that message, Mr.

Stork, do you recall what, if anything, Mrs. Wilson said to you?

A    No.

Q    Did she say anything at all?

A    Well, she said she could take it down herself, and I said, "Let him take it down for you rather than make you drive it down there."

Q    She said she could take it down herself?

A    Yeah.

Q    Then you instructed Robert to take it for her; is that right?

A    Correct.

MR. FRY:   Okay.   David, I believe that is all.   If Mr. Hooper has some questions, please try to answer his questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q    Mr. Stork, you gave her an opportunity to have somebody else carry the book down?

 

 

Page 804

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And she acquiesced in allowing you to do that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you recall -- how many nights did Mrs. Wilson  stay there at the lodge that weekend?

A    Just one. She was booked for two but she

didn’t show up the first night.

Q    Just Saturday night?

A    Right.

Q    Can you tell the jury with respect to the phone conversation you had with this individual looking for Mrs. Wilson,  what was his manner on the phone?

A    He was pretty upset. Most people get turned away from the gate get pretty upset.

Q    So he was certainly calling attention to himself; is that correct?

A    Well, not any more than anybody else that gets turned away and calls up there.

MR. HOOPER: Thank you, sir.

MR. FRY:  Thank you, Mr. Stork. And,

Your Honor, we would ask that he be also excused.

THE COURT:  Mr. Stork may be excused.

 

Page 805

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Fry, I don't suppose you have a short witness, do you?

MR. FRY:   Well, as a matter of fact --

THE COURT:   I don't mean five, ten.

MR. FRY: As a matter of fact, Your

Honor, in  all honesty, I do have a short witness

THE COURT: If you do we will proceed.

MR. FRY:   I've got some long ones that I guess I could     we have got a short one, yes, sir.

SHIRLEY SMITH,

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    Mrs. Smith, will you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury here who you are, please, ma'am?

A    Shirley Smith.

Q    Mrs. Smith, where do you make your home? @A   At Cropwell, Alabama.

Q    Where is Cropwell?

A    Between Vincent and Pell City on 231 South.

 

 

Page 806

 

Q    Is. it kind of the outskirts of Vincent,

Alabama?

A    It is.

Q    You have come over here from Cropwell to

be with us today; is that correct?

A    Yes .

Q    I believe you have a husband in poor health?

A    Yes

Q    I appreciate your being here all day waiting for us. Now, what do you and your husband do?

A    We operate a grocery store.

Q    What is the name of that store?

A    Smith's.

Q    Just like your name?

A    Right.

Q    Where is that store located?

A    In Vincent, Alabama.

Q    How long have you all had it?

A    He's been there about 15 years.

Q    And what type of store is that?

A    Sort of a neighborhood grocery store.

Q    And it's located in downtown Vincent?

 

 

Page 807

 

 

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    How big is Vincent?

A    Not very large.

Q    Not very large?

A    No.

Q    Bigger than Cropwell?

A    Yeah, bigger than Cropwell.

Q    Well-@, are there a couple of hundred people or maybe a thousand people?

A    I would say there is about a thousand.

Q    About a thousand?

A    Yeah.

Q    Have you got a bank and a Methodist Church, don't you, Baptist Church?

A    Right.

Q    Now, do you know a fellow or do you know of a fellow by the name of James White?

A    I do.

Q    How do you know Mr. White?

A    As a customer in the store.

Q    And he hasn't been in the store lately, take it?

A    No.

Q    Back before May of last year, how long

 

Page 808

 

 

had you known him, in your best judgment?

A    I would say around a year.

Q    About a year?

A    About a year.

Q    Was he a regular customer?

A    Not -- he was about six months there. Earlier, no, his wife usually did all of the shopping.

Q    When he was with his wife, she did the shopping? I'm sorry, you say his wife did the shopping?

A    Yeah.

Q    So you are saying there was a time that he did come in?

A    He did.

Q    All right. And Mr. White ever have any problem with checks at your store?

A    Yes.

Q    With

A    Returned checks.

Returned checks! personal checks?

A    Right.

Q    On who?

A    On himself.

 

 

Page 809

 

Q     On himself.  Do you remember when that would have been?

A     It was about two weeks earlier than the 22nd of May, roughly two weeks earlier.

Q     Now, you and I have spoken about this

case before; is that right?

A     We have.

Q     Now, James White was a customer of yours?

A     Yes.

Q     At some point in time, did you learn

about the  murder of Dr. Jack Wilson over in Huntsville?

A     I did.

Q     When did you find out about that?

A     About Tuesday or Wednesday of the following  week.

Q     Tuesday or Wednesday?

A     Yes .

Q     When had you seen James before then?

A     On Friday night.

Q     Friday night?

A     The 22nd.

Q     So did you remember

A     I remembered it because of that.

 

 

Page 810

 

Q   Because of that?

A   Yeah.

Q   So are you saying to the jury that two weeks before the date Dr. Wilson was killed, then, James had been in your store?

A   Yes.

Q   What did he do?

A   He picked up the two returned checks.

Q   Do you remember how much they were for?

A   One was for roughly $5 and one was for a little better than $22.

Q   Did he have to pay a late charge or anything?

A   Yes.

Q   Did he say anything to you when he picked them up?

A   He just wanted to get his checks at that time.

Q   Pick up his checks?

A   Yes.

Q   And your judgment would have been that that would have been two weeks before the 22nd?

A   Roughly two weeks before.

Q   You didn't keep a record of it or write

 

 

Page 811

 

it down when it happened?

A    No.

Q    Now, did you see him on the 22nd, that

is, Friday before he was arrested the next week?

A    I did.

Q    When and where was that?

A    In the grocery store.

Q    In Vincent, Alabama?

A    Right.   

Q    Do you know what time it was you saw him? A    It was between 8:00 and 9:00.

Q    Between 8:00 and 9:00?

A    Yes.

Q    What time do you close?

A    At 10:00.

Q    At 10:00.   And what was Mr. White doing there, if  you recall?

A    He said     he wanted to know if he had another returned check, that he would like to pick it up.  We looked and he didn't have one.

Q    Did he offer to pay for it then?

A    He said if we got another returned check on him, to let him know and he would come pick it up.

 

 

Page 812

 

Q     To let him know and he would come pick it up?

A     Yes.

Q     Did you see him after that?

A     No.

Q     Are those the only checks that he had

out?

A     That’s the only two.

Q     Were any others ever returned to him?

A     No, no more.

Q     Did you know anything about him other

than just being a customer?

A     Just a customer is all .

Q     How long had he been coming in the store? A     I would say it had been about a year that

he had been coming in.

Q     All right.

A     He might have been in earlier, but I didn't know him at that time.   I was just beginning to realize who he was within the last year.

MR. FRY:  Mrs. Smith, thank you very

much.  If some of the gentlemen on the defense table have any questions, please try to answer their questions.

 

Page 813

 

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q    Mrs. Smith, I'm Charlie Hooper.    I

haven't met you before.   I represent Mrs. Betty Wilson.  I believe you stated that you had seen him on May 22nd; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you and your husband work in the store together?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And I believe, is it not your custom to take  an inventory at night, some type of inventory?

A    We check up at night, yes.

Q    What time do you begin that process?

A    At 10 : 00

Q    At 10 o'clock?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you recall earlier with respect to trying to  remember when Mr. White had come to the store, that you related that to a period of time when you were checking up?

A    No, I have certain things I do before

8 o'clock, and then at 9 o'clock, I usually get my groceries and he came in between that time.

 

Page 814

 

 

Q    You think it was closer to 9 o'clock?

A    I can't remember that.  All I know is it was between 8:00 and 9:00.

Q    All right.  And I believe you said the checks were for $5 and $2; is that correct?

A    $22 .

Q    $22?

A    Yes.

Q    Did Mr. White indicate on this night that he had some cash, that he was ready to pick up some checks?

A    Yeah, if we had any, he wanted to pick it up.

Q    Well, Mrs. Smith, if the State has its

way he will be a customer again.

A    All right.

THE COURT: Any more questions?

MR. FRY:  Your Honor, I move that be stricken from  the record.

THE COURT:  I don't know what he said.

MR. FRY: It's just as well.

THE COURT: I heard part of it but I didn't understand all of it.

MR. FRY: It's just as well.

 

Page 815

 

 

THE COURT:  I didn't understand all of

it.

Do you have any more questions?

MR. FRY:  I do not, Your Honor.   I would certainly  ask that Mrs. Smith be allowed to be excused.

THE COURT: Mrs. Smith may be excused. Thank you, ma'am.

Mr. fry, it's about quitting time.    Do

you have anybody that you really need to get on and get back somewhere?

MR. FRY: No, sir.

THE COURT:  If not, we are going to

recess.

MR. FRY:  I scheduled around that already this afternoon.

THE COURT:  All right.   Ladies and Gentlemen, we will recess, we will adjourn until in the morning at 8:30.

Again, as you were yesterday, you will be in charge of the bailiffs.   And, in the meantime, do not discuss this case with anyone, permit no one to discuss it with you or in your presence.    Please go into the jury room until they are ready.    Thank you.

 

Page 816

 

 

 

(Whereupon, proceedings were in recess at 6:10 p.m., February 24, 1993, until the next following consecutive day, February 25, 1993, at

8:30 a.m., at which time, the following occurred:) THE COURT:  Mr. Fry, are you ready?

MR. FRY:  State's ready, Your Honor.

THE COURT:  Is the defense ready?

MR. COOK: We are ready, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Bring the jury out.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: Mr. Fry, you may proceed.

LINDA BUSH,

being first duly sworn,  was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    Good morning.

A    Good morning.

Q    How are you doing?

A    Fine.

Q    If you will, please, ma'am, tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury who you are.

A    My name is Linda Bush.

Q    And, Mrs. Bush, where are you from?

 

Page 817

 

A    I'm from Vincent, Alabama.

Q    And what county is that in?

A    Shelby.

Q    How far is that from here?

A    About 80 miles.

Q    Did you come down yesterday to be with

us?

A    Yes.

Q    You didn't get on yesterday, did you?

A    No.

Q    We appreciate your staying over. What do you do, Mrs. Bush?

A    I'm the head teller at the First Bank of Childersburg, the Vincent branch.

Q    And that's a bank with headquarters in Childersburg; is that correct?

A    That's correct.

Q    Is that where the main branch is?

A    Yes.

Q    Where you work is in Vincent?

A    Correct.

Q    And do you live in Vincent?

A    I live in Harpersville.

Q    Harpersville?

 

Page 818

 

 

 

A    Yes.

Q    Where is Harpersville?

A    That's about five miles south of Vincent.

Q    Okay.

A    In Shelby County.

Q    Is that kind of at the intersection of

280 and 231?

A    280 and 231, yes.

Q    How long have you been with the Bank of Childersburg?

A    Almost ten years.

Q    How long have you been at the Vincent

branch?

A    Almost ten years.

Q    Almost the whole time?

A    Yes.

Q    Is that the only place you have worked?

A    No.

Q    Okay.  But most of the ten years?

A    Yes.

so I take it you were an employee and the teller, then, of the Bank of Childersburg back in

the spring of last year; is that right?

A    Yes.

 

Page 819

 

 

Q     Did you all have a customer by the name

of James Dennison White?

A     Yes.

Q     And did you ever wait on Mr. White or did you know him?

A     Yes.

Q     How did you know him?

A     I waited on him as a customer at the

bank.

Q     And, in your best judgment, how long had you known him as of May; how long had you known him as a customer?

A     Approximately two or three years.

Q     Approximately two or three years?

A     Yeah.

Q     Was he a regular customer?

A     He was in, yeah, pretty often, you know, weekly.

Q     Weekly?

A     Yeah.

Q     All right.  Back in the spring of last

year, more to the point, in the first of May last year, did you take a deposit from Mr. James

Dennison White?

 

 

Page 820

 

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Have you got some records that reflect that?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    May I see those?

A    Okay.

(Brief pause.)

A    His deposit is right there.

Q    Did you actually wait on Mr. White, yourself?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    And do you remember waiting on him?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    Is this a record, which I'm marking as State's Exhibit No. 20 -- which you just gave me, so I take it you are familiar with it?

A    Okay.

Q    You are familiar with that; right?

A    Right.

Q    Is that -- what is State's Exhibit No.

20; what is reflected on there?

A    Okay.  There was a $500 cash --

Q    What is the -- not the transaction

itself --

 

 

Page 821

 

A   The transaction -- oh, this is a copy of the teller tape.

Q   That you made?

A   That I made, yes.

Q   Was that a business record that you made?

A   Yes.

Q   Part of the customary and normal business records?

A   Yes.

Q   Compiled for the bank?

A   Correct.

Q   It wasn't done for you personally or Mr. White?

A   No, not for me personally.

Q   Kept in the normal course of business?

A   Right.

Q   And you made the copy of the actual tape itself; is that right?

A   Correct.

Q   And that's what you have here this morning?

A   Right.

Q   What kind of transaction was it that you

had with Mr. White?

 

 

Page 822

A   He had a cash deposit of $500 to his checking account.    That was his first transaction. He had several transactions this day.

Q   And what day was this, exactly?

A   April the 27th, 1992.

Q   April 27th.   Is that what's on the tape?

A   Correct.

Q   Is that your best recollection of when this transaction would have occurred?

A   Yes.

Q   So you have one deposit of $500; is that right?

A   Correct.

Q   And to what kind of account was that deposit made?

A   That was to a checking account.

Q   All right.   What other transactions, if

any, did he make?

A   Okay.   He paid two loans.

Q   Did he pay them off?

A   No, he just paid payments on them.

Q   Go ahead.

A   They were past due and he paid the payment plus a late charge on each loan.

 

Page 823

 

Q    So he brought the past due loan payments up to date; is that fair to say?

A    One of them was 30 past due, one of them was 60 days past due, and he just made one payment on each, so one brought up to date and one still behind.

Q    one was still behind?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you know what kind of loan accounts those were? Were they for personal notes or real estate?

A    One was on a 1984 pickup truck and one on a mobile home.

Q    one was for a truck payment and one for a mobile home payment; is that right?

A    Correct.

Q    $500 in the checking.   How much did he

pay on each of those payments on the loans that he made?

A    One of his loans was 54.54 plus a 2.37 late charge, and the other one was 253.54 plus a $19.02 late charge.

Q    All right. Did he make other

transactions with you that day?

 

Page 824

 

A    Yes, he did.

Q    What was the next transaction that you have recorded there?

A    Okay.  He bought a money order -- he bought two money orders.

Q    Do you know what they were for?

A    Well, I have a copy of those.   The customer always fills the money order out after they leave the bank, and they were made out for child support.

Q    Yes, ma’am. May I see those?

A    Sure.

(Brief pause.)

Q    Okay.  These are not the money orders

 

themselves, because obviously the customer took

that with him; is that right?

A    Correct.

Q    But did you issue these from your bank?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    And you did this personally?

A    Yes, I did.  This is the back of it where they were signed.

(Brief pause.)

Q    So that State's Exhibit No. 21, then, is

 

Page 825

 

 

a copy which you made of those money orders?

A     Correct.

Q     Is it customary to make a copy of them?

A     No, we just pulled a copy after we had to pull the tape to see -- I have the money order numbers on my tape and we just pull them.    They are on file at the main branch in Childersburg.

Q     So you have a number there that corresponds with the numbers from your copy of

this

A     Correct.

Q     -- money order; is that right?

A     Yes.

Q     So then this is actually a photographic or photocopy of the actual money orders that you issued, you said?

A     Correct.

MR. FRY:  we are going to move State's Exhibit 20, which is going to be this copy of the tape, and 21, copies of the money orders into evidence.

MR. DRAKE:  No objection.

THE COURT:   20 and 21 admitted. 

 Q     Okay.  And the money orders were for how

 

Page 826

 

much?

 

    A.  One of them was for $120 and one of them

 

was $50, and there was a $2 fee on each one.

Q     Okay. And did you say these were for child support?

A     That's -- yes, that was on there somewhere.

Q     It's on there somewhere?

A     Yes.

Q     Okay. That was your understanding?

A     That was my understanding, that they were for child support.

Q     So that's 50 and that's 120 dollars.  And I take it there was probably a service charge for the issuance of the money orders; is that right?

A     $2 per money order.

Q     $2 per money order. All right. Was

there another transaction?

A     No, sir, that was all.

Q     That was all he did that day?

A     Yes.

Okay. Now, do you remember how he paid you for these transactions?

A     It was all cash.

Page 827

 

Q    All cash?

A    Yes.

Q    I believe you gave a statement to the police describing what you remembered about that transaction; is that right?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you have a tape that indicates the

kind of money that you were given from Mr. White?

A    When I enter the money in my machine, I enter in amounts of, you know, the denomination. And at first I did think that he gave me all 100's, but I think he must have given me some 20's also.

Q    Why is that?

A    Well, because like on the $500 cash in

for the deposit, for that deposit I have $500, so that had to be all one denomination.  Had it been 20's, 10's and 5's I would have broken it down.  And then like when he made his loan payments, he did each transaction-separately.  Some people like to do that.  He gave me $340, so I'm assuming that that was 20’s, because I have it entered as $340, and I gave him back $10.17.

Q    So if it had been hundreds it would have said what?

 

Page 828

A   I would -- if it was 200, 1 would put 200, and 180 in 20's, I would have put $180.

Q   So what was the total amount of money

that he actually handed to you which the bank took

in that day?

A   The total amount of money he gave me was

$ 1,003.83.

Q   $1003.83.  Now, did you see any other money?

A   He had other money in his hand, yes, and

I gave him back change from this transaction.

Q   Could you describe what you saw, what you viewed in  his hand?

A   Well, now, this is what I said, after him I had another large transaction, but I thought that

he had money wrappers, thousand-dollar bands like put around 100-dollar bills.

Q   Yes, ma'am.

A   In his hand.

Q   And that's what you told the police?

A   That's what I told the police I did, yes.

Q   Was that your recollection at the time?

A   That was my recollection at the time.

But, like I said, in viewing the teller tape I know

 

Page 829

 

how I put my currency in.

Q    So you are sure he didn't pay you all in 100-dollar bills?

A    No.

Q    But this other money that you saw, what was your recollection about what you saw in his hand that he didn't give you?

A    That he had money in a band, a $1,000 band, purplish in color.

Q    Okay. For those of us that aren't bankers and I don't think any of us much here are other than you and the lady out in the hall, probably, what does the purple band mean, what is the significance of that?

A    Well, it had $1,000 on it.  That's usually what 100's or 20's are put into, like in $1,000 denominations, that's the way we band them, strapping and counting them.

Q    So say someone that had a business that needed a lot of cash, say a grocery store like a chain, needed cash on a payday weekend, if they said, "We need $1,000,” would they get ten bands?

A    Ten packs with $1,000 bands.

Q    With a purple band?

 

 

Page 830

A   Well, purple or blue, just -- our bank's is blue. Banks have different colors.  I guess they order from different companies.

Q   But, at any rate, he had other money

which you actually saw?

A   Yes, sir.

Q   Other than the 1,007 that you received?

A   Yes.

Q   Now, the deposit -- let's go back for a moment to the checking account. Okay. Do you have records from the bank there as to the status of his checking account?

A   Yes.

 Q  Now, I believe the manager of the bank is actually outside?

A   Correct.

Q   She's waiting to come in also.  Are these records taken from the bank's records there in Vincent?

A   Correct.

Q   Are those records that you have access to and are custodian of as well as the lady who is coming in next?

A   Correct.

 

Page 831

Q     And do you have the account there, as of the date you took the deposit on - - the status of that as of the day you took the deposit on Mr.

White?

A     Yes, I do.

Q     Let me mark this, then, as State's

Exhibit No. 22 and ask, Mrs. Bush, for you to describe exactly what this exhibit is. And we will pass that around, if it's accepted by the Court, in a moment.

A     This is a copy of his bank statement for the -- well, it's not for the complete month of April, but it's just for what we call an instant statement.  And at that time he was $453 .16 overdrawn, which was - - had accumulated in a matter of, like -- you may want these others, too.

Q     Okay.

A     It was over a period of, like, three months.  And this was all charges, $15 charges, where he had written checks, had insufficient

funds, they come back and we charge $15.   And which he has a minus balance.

Q     Let's do this first.

MR. FRY:  I offer State's Exhibit 22 into

 

Page 832

 

evidence.

MR. DRAKE:  No objection.

Q    That's into evidence.   Now, Mrs. Bush, if you will, let's take them one at a time, beginning with this statement here. Can you explain the various entries? We are going to pass it around to the jury for them to see in a moment, but beginning with the first entries there, explain what these mean as far as the status of his account? That is, as far as how much money he had or didn't have.

A     Okay. He didn't have any, a minus means no money. The $15 charge is, like I said, for a check that was returned because he had no money.

And they just keep minusing -- and that's how much he owed the bank, $453.16, to bring his balance

back to zero. And the month before it was --

Q    Let me take this one and get it started around. And you have the money before that, then, before you?

A    Yes, I have from February the 23rd to April the 22nd.

Q    Let's mark that as State's Exhibit No.

23. Again, is this a document kept in the normal course of your business?

 

Page 833

 

A     Right.

Q     And part of the business record of the business?

A     This is a copy of his statement.

MR. FRY: We move State's Exhibit 23 into evidence.

A     okay. And he had like f ive $15

charges,?' four $15 charges, 6.50 service charge, and he was $401.66 overdrawn when his statement

went out.

Q     Were there any other deposits made?

A     No.

Q     And that was from February 23rd until March 22nd?

A     22nd.

They were all negative transactions in that month; is that correct?

A     That's correct.

Q     Let's go back to the next month, then.

MR. FRY: I take it this exhibit is entered, Your Honor?

THE COURT: it is.  23 is admitted.

Q     What are the dates of this statement?

A     January the 22nd, 1992, until February

 

Page 834

 

the 23rd, 1992.

MR. FRY: I'll mark this as State's Exhibit No. 24.

Q    This is a record similar to the others

but for the one month before; is that right?

A    That's this one.

Q    Okay.

A    One month before; correct.    And he still didn't have any deposits that month, it's all charges. And there were two checks paid on the

23rd.  He had $39.67, he had a check to come in for $10 and a check to come in f or $20, which was paid, and after that it was just all charges.

Q    Okay.  So in the statement from January 22nd up to February the 23rd, there was, appears

that one day that he did have $39 and some-odd cents in the bank; is that right?

A    Correct.

Q    And a check was paid?

A    Two checks were paid the 23rd.

Q    How many other checks were written that month that were returned; can you tell?

A    Each $15 charge represents one check.

Q    So would that be, then -- count with me,

Page 835

if you will.  one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.   What is this here, 13.33?

A     I have no idea.

Q     11, 12, 13. Would there appear to have been -- and these over here, too.    14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22.

A     22.

Would you agree there is at least 22 returned  checks that month?

A     That could possibly be a check order.    it doesn't have a code by it, so I don't know.

Q     Okay. No deposits?

A     No deposits.

Q     22 bad checks in January through 23rd of February?

A     Correct.

MR. FRY:  If I haven't offered this in evidence --

THE COURT: Is that 24?

MR. FRY: 24.

MR. DRAKE:  No objection.

THE COURT:  Admitted.

Q     All right.  What period do you have here?

A     This is from December 22, 1991, to

Page 836

January 22, 1992.

Q    Okay. And what does your record reflect as to the status of his account during this period?

A    On January 22nd, when his statement went out, he had the amount of 69.67.   He had several check charges in this month.   Seven charges in this month for insufficient funds, but he also had

deposits.

  Q   He did make some deposits in December

of - -

A    Yes, he did.

Q    How much were the deposits for?

A    He had a $40 deposit on 12/23/91.   He had an $80 deposit on 1/9/92.  And a $600 deposit on 1/17/92.

Q    And those were all of his deposits?

A    That is all of his deposits.

Q    What was the largest of those?

A    $600.

Q    $600 deposit?

A    Yes.

MR. PRY:  I'll mark this as State's Exhibit No. 25 and we offer this into evidence.

THE COURT:  25 admitted.

Page 837

Q    Now, before I publish this to the jury: From the statements which you have just gone over for us, was it in December of ‘91 that Mr. White made his last deposit prior to bringing his account up to date in April of ‘92?

A    According to the records, yes.

Q    Okay. And everything after the $29 balance he had during one of those months, every check after that was returned; is that correct?

A    Correct.

Q    But on the April date, which was when, April the - -

A    27th.

Q    27tb.  Is it your testimony that he came in and brought all of this indebtedness, as far as the checks are concerned, up to date?

A    Correct.

Q    And paid on two loan accounts?

A    Paid on two loan accounts.

Q    Was there anything out of the ordinary about Mr. White when he came in and paid the checks on the 27th?

MR. HOOPER: Judge, I object to "out of

the ordinary."

Page 838

Q    Well, how did he appear?

A    He was nice, calm.  I mean, you know, had money.   So he was just trying to catch everything

up, said he was trying to catch everything up.

Q    Had you ever had any problems with Mr. White?

A    He had - - you know, his checks had been overdrawn and he was  trying to take care of that and catch his  loans up and, you know, sometimes we have people who get behind if they are out of work, sick, things like that.

Q    He had been a customer for two years?

A    Correct.

Q    Do you know who loaned him the money to buy his truck and his mobile home?

A    Jean Baker.

Q    Ms. Baker?

A    Yes.

Q    She is waiting outside?

A    Correct.

Q    May I have Exhibit No. 20, please, ma'am? A    Sure.

Q    I'll let you keep that.

A    You might just want to attach that to the

Page 839

 

back of that.

Q     All right. Let me show you what I'm

going to mark as --

MR. FRY:  I'm going to mark this as 21-A, Your Honor. This exhibit is the reverse --

Q     What is this? Is that the reverse of the money orders?

A     This is the back of the money order where they signed – where it was signed and where it was sent through the bank.   It has the dates it was sent through the bank.  This  one was cashed at Smith's Grocery and this one at Vincent Red and White in Roanoke, Alabama.

Q     And this is your photocopy of the back of the money order; is that right?

A     That's the back.

MR. FRY:  I am marking this as 21-A, Your Honor, and asking that the clerk at a later time be allowed to attach these exhibits together so they will be -- seem to be one exhibit.

(Brief pause.)

Q     After having brought his checking account up to date and loan accounts up to date and having purchased these money orders, Mrs. Bush, were there

 

Page 840

any other transactions that you had with Mr. White

on this date?

A     Not that day.   He just thanked me and

left.

MR. FRY: That is all that I have to ask you.  If you will, please answer whatever questions these other gentlemen have.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q     Mrs. Bush, I'm Charlie Hooper.     I think I have had the pleasure to meet you before, have I not?

A     Yes.

Q     Nice to see you.   I believe you touched

on your statement that you had given earlier to the police back in July of 1992; is that correct?

A     Correct.

Q     Okay.  Did you not at that time also -- or at the time that you gave the statement was that at the bank?

A     At the time I gave the statement?

Q     Yes, ma'am.

A     Was it at the bank?   Yes, I wrote that statement out.

Page 841

Q    So you had access to these records at the time, did you not?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    And at the time that you gave that statement, you specifically told the police that

you recall that Mr. White had in his possession one bundle of what appeared to you to be $100 bills with a band that would be $1,000; is that correct?

A    Let me make a correction on that. I did not give that statement at the bank.

 Q    Okay.

A    I wrote the statement out, but I gave the statement to Micky Brantley at my home.

Q    All right. Where did you write this statement  out, then, at your home?

A    No, I wrote it out at the bank.

Q    Okay.  So at the time that you wrote it

out you had your records with you?

A    Correct.

Q    All right. The amount that you recall, $340, I believe you stated that your records would kind of indicate to you that that was not in $100 bills; is that correct?

A    Yes, it does.

Page 842

 

Q     Okay.

A     Well, yes.

Q     Well, how does your record indicate it was paid in 20's as opposed to 5's, $1 bills or $10 bills?

A     I would have remembered counting that many 5's or 1's.

Q     Well, how about 10's, could it not be a combination of 20's  and - -

A     I would have remembered counting that many 10's. If it was a combination I would have entered it in separately.    Had it been in different denominations of money, I would have entered it separately. As it is, I entered the total amount in.

Q     So by that record you know or have a firm recollection that it was all 20's, is that what

your testimony is?

A     No, I'm not saying it was all 20's, I'm saying like the $500 was either all 100's or all 20's, it was all one denomination.     It wasn't 10's, because I would have remembered.

Q     Could have been some 10's in there, couldn't it?

Page 843

 

A    No.

Q    $340, it could not have been any 10's paid to you?

A    I would have entered it separately.

Q    I believe you stated he had two loans, a truck loan and another loan; is that correct?

A    Mobile home, yes.

Q    Is that a mobile home loan or is the mobile home put up as collateral; is that a personal loan?

A    The mobile home is as collateral.

Q    So it's not -- the money was not lent to purchase the mobile home, was it?

A    Yes. Well, I don't know, you would have to talk to Mrs. Baker.

Q    You don't know?

A    I don't know that.    I do not know that.

Q    Okay.

A    The mobile home is collateral on the loan.

Q    Tell me, then, how you can testify under oath that  this loan was made for the mobile home.

A    Because that was collateral on it and usually when you put something up for collateral,

 

Page 844

 

that' s what you usually purchase with it.

Q    Do you know the total amount that was loaned on this?

A    I do not.

Q    Do you not have it in front of you?

A    No, Mrs. Baker has that.

Q    Has it ever been shown to you? This --

A    The mobile' home loan?

Q    Is it not a personal loan?

A    Like I said, I looked at the loan and its got collateral, the mobile home on one and the Ford truck on the other.

Q    I assume that your bank makes personal loans; is that correct?

A    Like I said, you will have to ask Mrs. Baker.

Q    Well, I'm asking you right now, though.

A    I didn't make the loan.

Q    I'm not asking about that loan. Does your  bank --

A   - - make personal loans?

Q   - - make personal loans.

A    Just on signature loans, you are speaking?

Page 845

Q    I'm just saying personal loans right now.

A    Yes, we do.

Q    Okay. Let's assume I come to your bank

and you are gracious enough to maybe loan me a

little money. That would be called a personal

loan; is that correct?

A    Correct.

Q    And I assume to protect the bank, you might want me to put something up?

A    Correct.

Q    That would be collateral?

A    Yes.

Q    Okay.  And if I put up a bicycle, is the nature of the loan changed to a loan on my bicycle

or is it still a personal loan?

A    If you use that money to purchase the bicycle, it's a loan on the bicycle.

Q    Well, if it's not mine, how do I put it

up? If I don't own it yet, how do I put it up as collateral?

A    Well, people borrow money to purchase items.

Q    Right.  Okay.  And if you do that, then

you are going to have a closing and the bank's going

Page 846

to be present; correct?

A   Right.

Q   To make sure that money is spent for that item?

A   Correct.

Q   So there would be some records in the

bank to show a closing statement with respect to

the loan and the application of the funds; is that correct?

A   There would be a title on the truck and

on the mobile home.

Q   Sure. Okay. Mrs. Bush, I believe I

asked you to -- back when I was visiting you in the bank, if you would review his records for ‘91.   Do you recall that?

A   ‘91.  I don't have - -

  Q   Okay.  Let me ask you, do you have with you records of Mr. White's accounts that would go back into February and October of ‘91?

A   I don't have those with me for February of ‘91.

Q   Do you recall looking at those for me at any time?

A   To tell you the truth, no, I don't, not

Page 847

 

 

in ‘91.  What I remember showing you was this teller tape.

Q    Do you know of any time in the history of Mr. White's account with the bank, that he ever

made a deposit in excess of this $600 deposit that you have testified to?

A    No, but I didn't review all his statements.

Q    Well, you did review January of 1992; is that correct?

A    Correct.

Q    And during that, let's say the first week of January of 1992, did Mr. White withdraw from

that bank in either an account or in any other fashion, any sum of money in excess of $1,000?

A    No, he didn't have that amount in there.

Q    Okay.

A    I don't have that record in front of me, but I don't recall seeing it.

Q    So if Mr. White, the first week in January, has got monies in excess of $1,000, it didn't come from your bank,- right?

A    No, sir.

Q    And back on April 27th, when you were

Page 848

waiting on Mr. White and you saw that bundle of $100 bills with the purple band on it, do you have any knowledge, did that come from your bank?

A    Not that I know of   I don't know of him making a loan at our  bank.

Q    I mean, it could have come out of a hole

in the ground at his place, as far as you know; right?

A   I don't know where the money came from.

MR. HOOPER: Thank you, Mrs. Bush.

THE COURT: Any more questions?

MR. FRY: No, Your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: Mrs. Bush, you may step down, please, ma'am.

MR. FRY: We would ask that she be

excused and allowed to go back to work.

THE COURT: She may be.

MR. HOOPER: Judge, could we approach the bench just a minute?

THE COURT: Sure.

(Whereupon, counsel approached the bench for an off-the-record discussion out of the

presence and hearing of the jury; after which the following occurred:)

Page 849

DOROTHY JEAN BAKER

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FRY:

Q    Good morning.

A    Good morning.

Q    How are you doing?

A    Fine.

Q    Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen

of the jury who you are, please, ma'am.

A    Dorothy Jean Baker.   I'm from Vincent and I'm employed at First Bank of Childersburg, branch manager.

Q    And, again, the bank is -- has as its

main office the bank in Childersburg; is that correct?

A    Correct.

Q    But your bank is in Vincent?

A    Right.

Q    How far apart is that?

A    It's about ten miles.

Q    Ten miles?

A    Right.

Page 850

Q    And how long have you been the manager of the Vincent branch, Mrs. Baker?

A    Approximately ten years.

Q    Ten years?

A    Yes.

Q    Have you and Mrs. Bush, that just left, been working together that long?

  Q   Yes, I have been at the bank almost 20 years , but, now, she has not been there that long.

Q    Okay.  Y'all have been friends a long time, it sounds like?

A    Right.

Q    And you are the branch manager; is that right?

A    Yes.

Q    How long have you been the branch manager of that bank?

A    Ten years.

Q    Ten years?

A    Right.

Q    The whole time you have been there you have been  the branch manager?

A    No.

Q    With the Bank of Vincent?

Page 851

A    No.

Q    Okay.  You work there

A    I have worked there 20 years, but I have only been the branch manager ten years.

Q    Okay. Now, back in the spring of last year, then, you also were the branch manager; is

that right?

 A    Yes.

Q    And what kind of bank is that? Is that in a trailer or is it a regular brick and mortar bank? Is it a permanent bank?

A    Yes, it's a permanent bank.   It's a brick building.

Q    Okay. What do you do there as the

manager of that bank?

A    As the manager I -- well, I do a lot of different jobs, but mainly I'm in charge of loans

and seeing customers when they come in the bank to borrow money and just seeing that things run properly.

Q    The head honcho, I guess, more or less?

A    Well, more or less, yes.

Q    Are there any other officers in the bank? A    Yes, we have one other loan officer.

Page 852

 

Q    One other loan officer?

A    Yes.

Q    How many tellers do you have there?

A    We have three full-time and one part-time teller.

Q    Now, did you have a customer at your bank by the name of Mr. James Dennison White?

,k   Yes, Sir.

Q    And back in May of last year was he a customer of yours?

A    Yes, Sir.

Q    Do you know, in your best judgment, how long he had been a customer of your bank?

A    I would say probably about four years, to my knowledge.

Q    Four years to your knowledge.  Had you known him, do you think, that long?

A    Yes, Sir.

Q    As a customer, I take it?

A    Well, I had only briefly known him like about two years.  He had originally done business with our main office in Childersburg.

Q    Okay.  So he had been a customer of the bank before he came to you in Vincent; is that

Page 853

 

right?

A    Correct, yes, Sir.

Q    So you are saying he had had an account with  your specific bank in Vincent for two years?

A    Yes, Sir.

Q    What kind of accounts did he have there?

A    Checking account is the only thing that I can tell you that I know for sure that he had. Checking account and, of course, he had loans with us.

Q    Had loans?

A    Yes.

Q    That's what I want to ask you about.   Did you make Mr. White some loans?

A    Yes, Sir.

Q    When did you do that, when is the first loan that  you know about or that you recall? Have you got records there?

A    Yeah, I have got records.   May I look?

Q    You surely may.

A    Okay.

(Brief pause.)

A    Okay. The first record that I have of a loan with him was on June of ‘91.

Page 854

 

Q   June of ‘91. What kind of loan was that

for?

 A   Okay.  That was a loan to purchase a

vehic1e.

Q   Do you know he bought a vehicle with

that?

A   Yes, sir.

Q   How do you know that?

A   Because the car dealer that he bought it from also came to the bank with him when he purchased the car.

Q   Did you --

A   And we did the title work on the car.

Q   Is the title actually in the -- it shows you all as a lienholder or the title with the bank at Vincent?

A   Yes.

Q   Or the Bank of Childersburg?

A   Yes, sir.

Q   May I see that first document, please, ma'am?

MR. FRY:  Now, gentlemen, for the sake of time, I'm going to ask her about all of these records she has at one time.

Page 855

Q    You have got several documents there in front of you.  What are all of these that you have right there in your lap, Mrs. Baker?

A    I have one other paper that shows a smaller loan that he also had with the bank, and I have just like payment histories of where payments were made on the loan., the last payment, and when the payments were made.

Q    Okay. And are all of these documents you have part of your business records there at the

Bank of Childersburg at Vincent Branch?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Are they kept as a part of your business record?

A    They are.  All of our records are kept at our main branch office, they keep all of the

records centrally located.

Q    Were they compiled by you or people under your supervision?

A    They were - - these files were pulled by me.

 Q    All right.

A    Like the copies of the loans, they had to be done at Childersburg, because they are kept in a

Page 856

 

 

file at Childersburg.

Q     Did you make this loan yourself?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     So you are familiar with the loan.    Do

you recall lending money to Mr. White to pay what, a truck with?

A     Yes, sir.

 Q     Says on here, “’84 Ford F150.” Was that your collateral on the loan?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     And is that what you loaned him the money to buy?

A     Well, actually when he borrowed the money it was on another vehicle, and he had some problems with it and the car dealer made the agreement to

swap with him.  So we swapped the collateral and changed collateral somewhere down the line.

Q     All right. Let me ask you to identify State's Exhibit No. 26.   Is this the loan which you referred to in your testimony just a moment ago for the truck?

A     Yes, sir.

Okay.  And, again, when was this loan made?

Page 857

A    This loan was made on June 20th of 1991.

Q    And you made it, you were the loan officer, that is?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And you took as collateral the ‘84 Ford that's shown on there; is that right?

A    Right.

MR. FRY: We move State's Exhibit 26 into evidence.          

THE COURT:  26 is admitted.

Q    Now, did you make any other loans to Mr. White?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    When was the other loan or loans?

A    The other loan was made in January of

‘92.

Q    January of ‘92.  Do you have a document that reflects a record of that loan?

A    Yes, sir.

  Q    May I see it?

(Brief pause.)

  Q    What kind of loan was this, Mrs. Baker?

A    This was just a personal loan which was secured by a mobile home that he owned.

Page 858

Q     Okay. Now, a personal loan, what do you mean by that?

A     Well, a personal loan, we consider a personal loan a small amount of money.

Q     Okay.

A     Less than $1,000.

Q     You just loaned him money7,

A     Right.

Q     Do you know what he did with it?

A     No, sir.

Q     In other words, you didn't -- as far as you know, he didn't buy anything you took as collateral; is that right?

A     No, sir.

Q     Not a car or - -

A     No, sir.

Q     Now, you took as collateral a mobile

home; is that right?

A     Right.

Q     And you said Mr. -- you said a moment ago Mr. White owned that mobile home; is that right?

A     Yes, sir.

Q     Do you know that to be a fact?

A     He brought a bill of sale in on it with

Page 859

the serial number, the description of the trailer on it.

Q     Which would be evidence to you that it was paid for?

A     Right.

Q     Were you aware of any outstanding loans or other liens on this mobile home?

A     No, sir.

Q     Is that the kind of thing that you would check?

A     No, not normally if they bring a bill of sale in on it, and we usually file a mortgage against it with the County.

Q     All right. Were you aware of any other liens or mortgages on this collateral?

A     No, sir.

Q     So, then, how much money did you loan Mr. White?

A     $700.

Q     How was it to be paid back?

A     It was to be paid back in 15 monthly payments.

Q     Okay.  Beginning on February the 23rd and ending April of this year; is that right? Would

Page 860

 

have paid out this spring?

A    Right.

Q    And is this a record that reflects the loan itself?

A    Yes, sir.

MR. FRY: We move State's Exhibit No. 27 into evidence.

THE COURT:  27 admitted.

Q    Now, do you have a record there that reflects the history of these loan accounts, Mrs. Baker?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And those records you have already testified are kept by the bank, they are records

that you either prepared or are custodian of; is

that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Beginning with the first of the year, in January, what was the status of Mr. White's loan accounts with you? Let's begin, if we may, with the order that you gave it to us, with the truck loan.

A    Okay.  Now, what I have here only shows first payment was made on February the 24th of ‘92, and, you know, it shows that he made a payment of

Page 861

 

$126.77.

Q     Okay.

A     The next payment was not made until April the 27th.

Q     So he missed the March payment?

A     Right.

Q     And was the April payment due?

A     Okay--. He made the February payment, the March payment was missed. And then he made two payments on the April payment.

Q     Okay.

A     Which made it show the May payment as the next payment due.

Q     So was he caught up or was there another one due?

A     Well, there was a May payment due, so he was still  30 days past due at that time.

Q     All right. Now, on the other account, what was the history of that account?

A     Okay.  Show the first payment was made on March 10th of ‘92, the payments were like $54.54. There was not another payment made until April the 27th, and there was only one payment made then, which left him still being 60 days past due.

Page 862

Q     Okay.  Did he have any other loans with you?

A     No, sir, these were the only two he had active.

Q     Okay.  And your records would indicate that the payments were made in April of 1992, on both of those accounts; is that right?

A     Same day, yes, sir.

 Q     And you personally lent that money to Mr. White; is that right?

A     Yes, sir.

MR. FRY:  I believe that is all, Mrs. Baker.  If the defense counsel would like to ask questions, please try to answer their questions.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. HOOPER:

Q     Hi, Mrs. Baker. I think I have met you before, have I not?

A     Yes.

Q     Nice to see you again.   I have just got a few questions to ask you.

Back in April when Mr. White made his appearance at the bank and paid on a few things, he left that bank still owing money; right?

Page 863

 

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Okay. Did you get a financial statement from him back in January of ‘92?

A    No, sir.

Q    Okay. So you loaned him $800; is that right?  $880?

A    $700, but with interest it was 800 and something.

Q    700 bucks. Did you even inquire from him as to whether or not he was going to have any means to pay it back; did you ask him if he was working?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    What did he tell you?

A    To the best of my knowledge, he had been unemployed for a while and he was supposed to be getting some money, he said a settlement or something that he was going to try to catch all of this up with.

Q    So y'all loaned him money on a hope and a prayer?

A    Well, his mother-in-law signed with him on one of these notes.

Q    Okay. Let's be a little bit more specific with this loan in January. What was the

Page 864

 

date that you loaned him the money?

A    In January?

Q    Yes, ma'am.

A    Now, which loan are you talking about?

Q    That's the personal loan.

A    The personal loan?

Q    Did you have more than one loan in January of ‘92?

A    No, that was just -- well, it's on that loan, I would have to look at it and see. I'm sorry.

Q    All right.

A    I'm not good with dates.

(Brief pause.)

A    January the 17th.

Q    Okay.  And at that time you were satisfied  that the mobile home -- there was no outstanding indebtedness or anything like that on the mobile home; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And that was as a result of what Mr. White told you or what he presented to you?

A    Well, what he presented and told us.

Q    Okay. And this is the same Mr. White

Page 865

 

 

that's been flooding your bank with bad checks; right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And y'all just kind of accept what he says?

A    Well, he had been a customer for several years and we had had no problems out of him.

Q    A lot of customers like that and you would be out of business, would you not?

A    Well, that's true.

Q    I don’t suppose you all closed his account out, have you?

A    Yes, sir, I think it is closed out.

Q    Okay.

A    He closed it out, I think.

 Q    Okay.  But he may open it up again.

MR. HOOPER: Thank you.

THE COURT: Any more questions?

MR. FRY:  No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Mrs. Baker, you may be excused. Thank you.

Page 866

 

 

 

LINDA VASCOCU

being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR, FRY:

Q    Good morning.

A    Good morning.

 Q    Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen

of the jury who you are, please, ma’am.

A    My name is Linda Vascocu.

Q    Where are you from, Mrs. Vascocu?

A    I'm from the Vincent, Alabama, area. I live on Clear Creek in Clear Creek Estates out by Logan Martin Lake.

Q    And the Vincent area is kind of all

around  that lake?

A    Right.

Q    That's in the Talladega and Sylacauga and Childersburg and Harpersville area?

A    Right. Just a little small community, rural area.   I go to church in Vincent.   My son goes to school there, I teach there.    So, like I say, a little small community.    It's very rural America.

Q    Just off of 280 towards Sylacauga, I

Page 867

guess; is that right, going from Birmingham?

A    Right.  If you want some history I can go into some depth.

Q    Thank you. Maybe some other time.

You and I have never met until just this morning, I believe?

A    That's right.

We spoke to each other on the telephone?

A    Right.  

Q    Now, what do you teach over there in Vincent?  I believe you teach at more than one school, don't you?

A    Right. I teach at Vincent Elementary, Middle, and High School.  My degree is in home economics, but right now I am substituting, so I'm teaching all subjects.

Q    I see.  So you teach wherever, they call you at 7 o'clock in the morning, I guess, or the night before, sometimes?

A    Right.

Q    And you teach at all of the schools,

then, in Vincent?

A    In Vincent.

Q    Elementary, middle, and high school?

Page 868

 

A    Yes.

Q    Now, you have a friend, do you not, who was teaching at the Vincent Elementary School by

the name of Mrs. Peggy Lowe; is that right?

A    That's right.

Q    How long have you and Mrs. Lowe been friends?

A-   Somewhere between six and seven years.    I met them when Wayne became -- her husband -- music director at First Baptist Church in Vincent, that's where I go to church, and I have known them since they were in church.

Q    And I believe in the spring of last year you actually lived in their home for some period of time; is that right?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Would you explain when that was and how that came about?

A    All right.

Q    You have a home of your own, don't you?

A    Right, I do.   The house that I had sold and the house that I was moving into was not yet

ready, and I had thought that would not be a

problem, that I would just move into the Resident

Page 869

 

 

Inn or someplace like that for a few weeks until it was ready. And it happened to be the weekend of the Talladega race, and I could not find a room

anywhere in the Birmingham area, Childersburg, Sylacauga, even in Alex City, there was no place to be found. So I happened to mention it to Peggy during choir practice, and she just said, "Come

stay with us." I said, "Well, look, this could run into, you know, a week, it wouldn't just be the weekend or two." And she said, "That's fine, no problem, ever how long it takes, just come stay."

Q     So how long did it run into?

A     Three weeks.

 Q     Three weeks. So you stayed there three weeks until your house was ready for you to move in; is that right?

A     Yes.

Q     Is that on the lake, also?

A     It's on the lake.

Q     What lake is that?

A     Logan Martin.

 Q     Logan Martin? Now, you were talked to by investigators from the Huntsville Police Department about the charges against Mrs. Lowe sometime last

Page 870

 

spring or last summer, weren't you?

A    That's right.

Q    Did you talk to Officer Brantley here; do you remember him?

A    I did not see him.  We talked on the telephone.

 Q    On the telephone, I'm sorry. But you did talk to someone?

A    Right.

  Q   Did they ask you about a time back in May of last year, that is, 1992, and in regard to an incident involving Peggy's daughter Stephanie; is that right?

A    Yes.

Q    She has a daughter.  How old is

Stephanie?

  A   Stephanie is 15.

Q    Okay.  And Stephanie becoming ill?

A    Right.

Q    Do you remember that incident?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you remember telling the officers back at that time that that would have been on about Tuesday the 19th of May?

Page 871

 

A    Right.

Q    Is that an accurate time frame, to the best of your recollection?

A    Right.

Q    What was young Miss Lowe's problem? What was Stephanie's problem, as you recall?

A    She had recently been to the doctor and they had put har on some type of medication, and she had an allergic reaction to the medication that she was taking. And they had to rush her to the Emergency Room.  It was so severe, I mean, she could have died from it because she could not breathe.

Q    So her problem, then, basically, was a breathing  problem; is that right?

A    Right.

Q    At least that was the symptom, I guess

you could  say?

A    Yes.

Q    And did they have to call an ambulance to come  get Stephanie?

A    Well - -

Q    Or they met an ambulance?

A    They met an ambulance on the way.   But they went on and put her in the car to take her on,

Page 872

 

then the ambulance met them on the way, with the medicine from Vincent. The doctor that she had gone to was from Vincent and she had contacted the medical unit and sent what they needed to give her, afraid that Talladega Hospital might not have exactly what she needed, and they met her on the way.

Q   Now, she became better; right?

A   Right.   

Q   She got to come home the next day?

A   No, she came back home that night.

Q   That night?

A   Yes.

  Q   Well, good. But, anyway, that was a memorable  event for that week, I take it?

A   Yes.

Q   You were very concerned?

A   Very concerned.

Q   So do you remember the next day, then, which would have been Wednesday the 20th?

A   Right.

  Q   At some point in time - -  and you were staying at Mrs. Lowe's house; is that right?

A   Yes.

Page 873

 

Q     Did you work during the daytime?

A     Yes.

Q     And what were you doing at that time?

A     I owned my own business. Since that time

I sold the business and am teaching. But I went to work at 7:00 in the morning, I worked in Sylacauga, had my business there. And that morning -- well, Peggy had been up most of the night checking on Stephanie, that she was afraid that she might begin to have trouble breathing again, and they had sent more medication  for her to be able to give to her if she did have any more complications or problems.

And I got up and, you know, normal getting ready to go to work, and Peggy said, you know, that she was going to stay home with Stephanie, just to make

sure that she was still all right. And I left that morning about 7:00 going to work.   Do you want me to keep going about the day, what I remember?

Q    No, ma'am. Let's skip on up a little

bit, if we may. Thank you. But what time did you get back to the Lowe residence that evening, assuming that's where you returned to?

A    Right.  Somewhere between 5:00 and 6:00.

Q    After having spent the day in Sylacauga

Page 874

 

at work?

A    Yes.

Q    Now, was someone visiting in the Lowe home   that evening when you returned?

A    Yes.

Q    Was there a guest there?

A    Yes.

Q    Who was that?

A    Betty Wilson was there.

Q    Is that the lady seated here next to Mr. Sandlin?

A    Yes, sir, that's Betty.

Q    And did you know her?

A    Yes, I had met Betty before.  Peggy's oldest daughter, Angie, had married a couple of years prior to this time, and Betty had been to the church to the teas and receptions and things that we had.  Been to the wedding.  Had visited our church on a couple of other occasions where I met her.

Q    So you knew her, very familiar with her?        A    Yes.

Q    Now, that evening did Mrs. Lowe and Mrs.

Wilson go somewhere?

Page 875

 

 

A    Yes, they did.

Q    Where did they go, if you know?

A    Well, when I came in, Betty and Peggy and Wayne were eating, Stephanie was out on the deck,

and they were all eating.  And I sat down to talk to them, how the day had been, what they had been

doing. Stephanie had wanted some ice cream. And so it was Wednesday, Wayne is music director at our church. So he was getting ready to go to church.  And I told Peggy and Betty that I would stay with Stephanie. You know, I knew Peggy had been up all night.  I said, "Just unwind a little bit, relax, everything is fine, I'll be here with her.    Go get the ice cream and maybe a movie." Stephanie, I think, maybe wanted to watch a movie.    "And, you know, I'll be here and watch her, everything is all right."

Q     Okay.  And that was -- are you certain that was Wednesday?

A     Yes.

Q     May - -

A     Right, because that was church night, and we discussed -- I told them -- you know, normally I would go to church on Wednesday night.  And I said,

Page 876

"I won't, I'll stay with Stephanie.    I know you have had a rough day, rough night, y'all just go do

that."

Q    And that would have been May the 20th, last year?

A    Right.

Q    Is that right?

A.   Yes.

Q    Now, did they leave?

A    Yes.

Q    Whose car were they in?

A    You know, I did not look out to see which car they were in.   I assume -- but I only assume

they went in Betty's car and that Wayne took his

car, but, now, I'm only assuming, because I did not look.

Q    Do you remember what kind of car Mrs. Wilson had?

A    I know it was a black car.    It was either

a Mercedes or BMW, but I'm not positive.     I don't know the makes of cars.   Well, it was just a black car and it was kind of that size.

Q    That size?

A    A foreign-looking --

Page 877

Q    Foreign-looking car?

A    Yes.

Q    A nice-looking car, would you say?

A    Yes.

Q    Now, when they returned did they have anything  with them?

A    They brought some movies back and ice

cream.

Q    All right. Do you know where they got those movies?

A    No.  No, I do not. Now, in the area where we are, it's a  15-minute drive to go anyplace to buy anything. So they had either gone to Talladega or

to Vincent, would have been the same time frame,

and they were gone about the length of time that it would take to go get ice cream and a movie and come back.

Q    So either going to Talladega would have

taken some time or to go where else, did you say?

A    To Vincent.

Q    To Vincent.  Are those the two choices

you have?

A    Well, Childersburg is about the same

distance that way, too.

Page 878

Q    Would the two closest places have been Talladega  or Vincent?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Are they about the same?

A    About the same.

Q    All right. Of course, Talladega is a

much larger place, is it not, than Vincent?

Right.

Q    But you could have gotten a movie or ice cream at either place?

A    Either place.

Q    You work in Vincent or have been in Vincent and they have that kind of stuff there,

too?

A    Right.

Q    So did they return, then, with that

stuff , with the ice cream and movies?

A    Yes, they did.

Q    And what did y'all do after they got

back?

A    Well, we dished the ice cream up,

everyone had some ice cream.   And we settled in to watch the movie.  I watched about five minutes of it and went to sleep.

Page 879

Q    Were you tired or was it a pretty bad movie?

A    Just really for the young people, it was more Stephanie's type movie and my son, Bill, who

is 17, 1 think they enjoyed it, but it was, like I said --

Q    Do you remember what it was about?

A    Really I couldn't tell you.

Q    Well, let me suggest a title to you and see if this refreshes your recollection.    Could it have either been Free Jack or Thelma & Louise?

A    It had Mick Jagger in it, so I would assume it was Free Jack.

 Q    Free Jack.  Okay. But you didn't Watch it?

A    Maybe about five minutes.

Q    You didn't miss much.   Just one second, please, ma'am.

(Brief pause.)

  Q    Now, Mrs. Vascocu, did you know James White?

A    I had met him one time before all the publicity  started.

Q    And when was that occasion?

Page 880

 

A    He came over to the Lowes' house.  Peggy and I had cleaned out her basement, packaged up a

lot of things that could either be taken to the dump or used or sold. And Peggy had told me about Mr. white, that he was having some financial

difficulty. She knew his daughter from school.

And that she thought he might could use some of the things. And so we boxed them up and put them by the back basement door, and he came over to take those items and to carry them off or sell them or use

them.

In relationship to the day we have just been talking about, that is, May the 20th, when

would that have been?

A    It was the same day that Steffie had the allergic reaction to the medication.

Q    So then the day before?

A    That would have been Tuesday. Tuesday.

Q    Tuesday?

A    Yes.

Okay.  So you saw him almost in exactly the same time period we are talking about here,

then; is that right?

A    Yes.

Page 881

Q    Had you seen him before?

A    No.

Q    Do you know what he did, what his occupation was?

A    Well, Peggy told me -- like I said, I did not have any knowledge of him beforehand, but she said he had been doing some carpentry work at the school. They had built a new wing, a new addition, and that she had met him through the school. And I don't know if his daughter had been in her class,

but through the child and through the school.

Q    Did she mention anything to you about lending him some money or giving him some money?

A    Yes, sir, she did.

Q    What was that about?

A    She said that he had had his utilities turned off I he did not have the money to pay the utility bill, and she had loaned him some money to have his utilities turned back on. This was in the wintertime. And that she did not think that he

would be able to pay her back because he didn't have a job, a regular job.  And they had agreed that he would work the money off doing some odd jobs around the house for Wayne and Peggy.  And Wayne had said,

Page 882

CONTINUE TO PAGES 883-904 OF VOLUME III

BACK TO TRIAL TRANSCRIPT INDEX

BACK TO BETTY WILSON HOME PAGE