[CONTINUED
FROM PAGE 362]
Your Honor. - I believe he is waiting in chambers.
JOSEPH EMBRY
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified
as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY
MR. FRY:
Q Good afternoon, Dr. Embry.
A Good afternoon.
Q I don't usually see you in
A No sir.
Q If you will, introduce yourself to the
ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please, sir.
A My name is Joseph Embry.
Q And what do you do?
A I'm a forensic pathologist for the
Alabama Department of
Forensic Sciences.
Q What does a forensic pathologist do or
what do you do as a forensic
pathologist?
A Well, my area includes
east to the
Page 363
cover
Q All right. And what do you do in those
counties, Doctor?
A At the request of the coroners, the
county coroners and with the
authorization of the District Attorneys, I do autopsy on people who die
unexpectedly or without a doctor in attendance or violent -- with coroners
cases, in other word@.
Q You are a medical doctor, are you not?
A That's correct.
Q And to be a forensic pathologist, you have
to be not only a doctor but have other specialized training; is -that not
correct?
A Yes, sir. .
Q And to do what you do or to be doing what
you are doing now, Dr. Embry, if you will, share with the jury the highlights
of your career.
A Well
Q As far as your education, Doctor.
A I graduated from medical school at the
Page 364
Hospital, University of
After I finished my
residency I spent two years in the Broward County Medical Examiner's Office in
After that time I came to
Q How long have you been in
A I have been in
Q During the course of those 17 years, do you
have any idea how many autopsies you have performed for the State of
A Over 3500.
Q Have you testified in a court of law
before, been qualified as an expert witness?
A Yes, sir.
MR. FRY: We would
offer Dr. Embry as an expert.
MR. DRAKE: We agree he is qualified as
an
expert.
Q Dr. Embry, back in May of last year, were
you working as a forensic pathologist there at your
Page 365
you working as a forensic
pathologist there at your office in
A Yes, sir.
Q And at some point in time did you perform
an autopsy on the body of Dr. Jack Wilson?
A Yes, sir.
Q And do you know who or by whom the body was
identified to you?
A The body was delivered by one of our so-
called contract drivers, Bob Rundle. And
I was there when he arrived with the body.
Q All right.
Was there a procedure that you used
well, first, were you asked to perform an autopsy on Dr. Wilson's body?
A Yes, sir.
Q What was the purpose of that autopsy or
examination?
A Well! the main purpose was to determine the
cause of death and to contribute in the determination of the manner o4f death,
whether homicide, accident, suicide, or natural, and then to define the wounds,
if there were any, and any natural disease that might have contributed to his
death or other information such as that.
Page 366
Q A11 right, sir. What is the process that you
used, the techniques, in doing this autopsy?
You did do the autopsy; is
that correct?
A That's correct.
Q And without going through the steps of your
findings, what is the process that you used to make a determination as to the
cause of death?
A Well, an autopsy is a complete external and
internal examination of a body.
Q Do you examine fluids?
A Yes, sir.
Q And do you -- when you say
"internal,'" does that mean you actually dissect organs of the body
or do a visual or physical inspection of them?
A Yes.
We remove the organs and dissect them. Yes, sir.
Q All right.
And you have dictated or have transcribed a report or protocol of
autopsy on Dr. Jack W. Wilson; is that correct?
A I have, yes, sir.
Q You did that yourself after making the
physical inspection and examination of Dr. Wilson's body; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Page 367
Q Would you share with the jury what your
findings were as to any injuries or trauma which
you observed to his body,
Dr. Embry?
A The injuries he had were confined to his
head, his neck, his forearms and hands and his
right shoulder.
He
had nine lacerations or tears in his head.
These ranged from seven-eighths of an inch
up to two and a half inches
in length. Most of them were about an
inch and a half in length. Two of
them were in the forehead
alone, another two were partly in the scalp and partly in the forehead. Two of then were on the left side of his
head. One of them was pretty much in the midline of his
forehead, one of them was
equally in the left side and right side of his head, and the other five were in
the right side of his head. They were in the front of the right side and the
back of the right side, front of the left side and back of the left side. So
they were basically all over his head.
Six of then were deep, all
the way down to the
skull. Some of them extended through five of the six
layers of the scalp, and a couple of them were more superficial, just into the
middle layer of the
Page 368
scalp. The most severe blows were in the front of
his head. and beneath a one and three-eighths inch laceration that was about a
quarter of an inch to
the right of the midline in
his forehead, was a
skull fracture. Beneath the two-inch laceration in the top of
his head, that was the one that was one inch in the right side and one inch in
the left
side, another skull fracture
was present. In the right side of his head, about two inches to the
right of the center line,
was a two and a half-inch laceration, the largest one, and there was an
underlying fracture in that location.
So the fractures were in both the left
and the right side, in the
midline, basically
beneath -- in the
forehead. And then there were three
fractures extending backward from a vertical fracture that dropped down into
the base of his skull, almost all the way to the midline in the base of his
skull. A very large fracture.
More
specifically, above and behind his right ear were three lacerations. The one in front extended down to the skull,
it was one and three- fourths inches in length, then a half-inch behind that
was a seven-eighths inch laceration which
Page 369
extended in depth into the
middle layer of the
scalp. And then five-eighths
inch behind that was
a one and one-half inch
laceration which also extended in depth down to the middle layer of the scalp.
In the left forehead was one and three- eighths inch laceration, in this
location, and in the back of the left side of his head was a two-inch laceration
which extended in a central area of one- half by three-eighths inch down to the
skull. So he had nine lacerations of his
head. t
In
the right side of his neck, he had a bruise that was two by one and
three-fourth inches. It extended almost to the midline, a half inch
below his Adam's apple, in
this location. The back of this bruise,
which was fresh appearing, extended to the large -- to the front of the large
muscle in the side of the neck, the sternomastoid
muscle. Three-fourths inch behind that bruise was a C- shaped bruise, one and a
quarter by two and a quarter inches.
There was hemorrhage in the
muscles of the neck on the
right side beneath that and the hyoid bone, which is a small U-shaped bone that
sits above the voice box was broken on the right side, with hemorrhage, or
bleeding, around
Page 370
the fracture.
He had a three by four-inch rounded red and blue bruise, also
fresh appearing, in the side
of his right shoulder. He had a two by one-inch bruise in the back
of the right shoulder with two small superficial tears or lacerations in the
center of it, and the top of
the shoulder blade, where it articulates with the collarbone, was
broken, in this area,
beneath this bruise in the
back of his right shoulder.
He had bruises in the back
of his hands and in the back of his left forearm and on the
inside of both forearms.
He
had complete fractures, that were best seen with X-rays, of the forearms on
both sides,
both bones in each forearm
were broken. The
radius, the bone on the thumb
side, was broken fairly close to -- a few inches from the elbow. And the ulna, the bone on the inside or
little finger side, was broken on each side in about the mid portion of his
forearm.
Then he had fractures of the left fourth and fifth metacarpal
bones, the knuckle bones that extend from the knuckles to the wrist, towards
the
Page 371
knuckle on the fifth
metacarpal and towards the
wrist on the fourth
metacarpal, the ring finger metacarpal.
And the bone on X-ray was
displaced, the fifth metacarpal was displaced inward towards the thumb side.
On the right hand he had a
complete fracture of the fifth metacarpal, the little finger metacarpal, near
the knuckle, which was consistent with a boxer's fracture, in that it was
buckled upward, a type of fracture you see in boxers when they strike a hard
surface. Of course, it could also be a
defensive wound, something striking his hand.
He did not have any prominent bruising in the back of his
right hand, but he had bruising in the back of the thumb and the forefinger,
middle finger and little finger; all the fingers, in other words, except the
ring finger, in the area close to the back of his hand.
And in the back of his left hand, he had bruising of the same
dimension, about five-eighths inch in diameter in the back of each finger but
not the thumb. And he had a ring on, when he came to
Page 372
me, that was-bent, and he
had a half-inch
laceration in the back of
the ring finger in
association with that.
Those
were the blunt injuries that he
had. I think I may have mentioned that there were
lacerations in association with the fractures. One on the right side and four on the left
side, on the inside of his forearms, up to an inch in length.
And
there were bone fragments in some of the -- in at least one of these
lacerations on the left side. And they
were, I believe, due to the bone breaking the skin when it was fractured. Those were the blunt injuries that he had.
And
he also had two stab wounds.
Q Dr. Embry, before we go on to those, let me
ask you to look at what I have marked as State's Exhibits -- they may be out of
order, but they are marked. P-51, P-53 and P-58.
A Yes.
MR. HOOPER: Would you repeat those. 51
and
what?
MR.
FRY: 51, 53, and 58.
Q Now, you have seen these others which I
have marked as P-55, P-56, P-52, P-54, and P-57.
Page 373
describing some wounds to
the -- that I would call forearms or wrists and fingers. Did some -- by the way, did you make these
photographs or were they
made at your request by your
staff?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were they made during the time that you
had begun to do the autopsy itself or around the
time you did the autopsy?
A They were, yes.
MR.
HOOPER: We are not going to object
to those photographs.
MR.
FRY: Okay. Well, all right. We move all of those that I just enumerated into
evidence, then, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Is that 51, 53,
and 58?
MR. FRY: 51 through 58.
THE
COURT: They are admitted.
Q Dr. Embry, what I would ask you to do, if
you will, is use the photographs and maybe be able to show the jury with the
photographs the injuries which you have just described in some detail.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Dr. Embry, those are small photos. If
you want to come right here
and kind of center
Page 374
you want to come right here and
kind of center yourself , and after you have shown those to the
jury as a whole, we will
pass them around so they
can have a better look.
A These are some of the lacerations that he
had in his scalp and forehead. This is
the one that was pretty much in the midline, overlying the fracture. Then he had a two-inch laceration here
in the scalp, that was about
an inch in each the right and left
sides.
He
had a laceration that went through the front side of -- this two-inch
laceration, partly into the forehead.
And
you can see the one and three-eighths inch laceration in the left side of his
forehead here, and the largest of the three above and behind his right ear is
also visible in this photograph.
Q Doctor, before you go on to the next one,
and pardon me for interrupting, but you were
talking about lacerations.
For most of us, to me, a laceration means a cut, but a laceration is not
necessarily a cut, is it?
A A laceration is
a blunt force injury
where the tissue is torn by
the blunt force
Page 375
instrument.
Q Do you have any opinion as to what kind
of blunt force would have
made the injuries which you examined, particularly to Dr. Wilson's head and
scalp?
A Well, the fact that his scalp is fractured,
indicates that it was a large amount of force.
And also in his brain, in the ventricles, the cavities in the brain, are
small vascular
structures where the spinal fluid is made, called the choroid plexus, and there was bleeding in this structure,
which is also an indicator that there
was a large amount of force
applied. And, of
course, there were bruises
in the brain, another indicator.
Q All right.
A All I can say is a large amount of force.
Q Let me ask you this: Would an instrument
such as this, applied with
force, be able to do the damage that you
witnessed on Dr. Wilson's skull?
A Yes , sir .
Q okay.
A This is a facial frontal photograph showing
the laceration that was in the center of
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his forehead, and you can
also see the one in the
top of his scalp that was
visible in this f first photograph. This
photograph shows the bruise in
his neck, which may well be
the outline of the instrument. A lot of
times with a rod-shaped instrument. there will be blood expressed around the
instrument, outlining the profile of the instrument itself .
You
can also see some of the lacerations in the right side of his head. The scalp
has been shaved in these
photographs. This photograph shows the
front of his chest and abdomen, the deformity
of his forearms due to the
displaced fractures, and also some of the injuries in his forehead. You can also see a couple of stab wounds,
which I'll describe in a minute.
He had chronic disease of
his intestine, and then had his large bowel removed. This is an outlet for the end of his small
intestine, with a bag over it. In the
right side of his abdomen.
Q Is that what would commonly be referred to
as a colostomy bag?
A Well, that's the most common operation, but
in this case they took out the colon, that's an
Page 377
ileostomy,
that's the end of the small intestine.
And this is a photograph showing the
right side of his head. You can see the three lacerations above and
behind his right ear, the
large laceration in the
frontal scalp and the ones that -- in the front of his head. As well as the bruise in the right side of
his neck and the bruise in the back of his shoulder, is visible in this
picture.
Then the other three pictures are photographs of the right
forearm, and you can see
the laceration overlying the
fracture and some of the bruising and abrasions and scrapes in the
inside part of the right
forearm. And then the same area on the
left side, you can see the four lacerations and some of the bruising and the
large bruise in the back of the mid portion of his right forearm that was over
four inches in diameter.
Finally, in the back of the
left hand,
you can see the bruising in
the fingers, the bruising overlying the fractures in the metacarpal bones, and
the laceration in the left ring finger where the ring was present. You can also see the bruising in the back of
his left forearm.
Page 378
Q
Dr. Embry, you may have testified, but if you didn't, the bruising and
the breaking of the bones in the arms and forearms and the carpals or fingers
themselves, is that consistent, with your experience, with what I believe you
have mentioned
a moment ago to be offensive
or blocking-type wounds?
A Yes
The fractures in his forearms are really classical for this, in which
there are fractures of the radius, the bone on the thumb side closer to the
elbow, and the ulna., the other bone in the mid portion, of someone trying to
shield themselves.
Q Could that baseball bat or softball bat,
whichever it is, again,
could that have been the type of weapon that you would have expected to inflict
the kind of wounds or trauma you observed
in Dr. Wilson?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right. Thank you very much. Now, would
you describe for the jury, if you will, what other sources or evidence of
trauma you discovered during your autopsy of Dr. Wilson's body?
A He had two stab wounds. He had a stab
Page 379
wound that was just short of
three-fourths of an
inch in length, on the
surface of the skin. I measured it as twenty-three thirty-seconds of an inch.
That was located three and five-eighths
inches below his right
nipple, and four inches to
the right of the center
line, that is, over the
fifth and sixth ribs, in
this area. That wound on the surface was vertical, the wound margins went
together nicely and they were smooth, and the
angles were V-shaped, there
were no hilt mark@; or other bruising of the skin, and the stab wound
track went basically
straight back through the
fifth and sixth ribs,
through the cartilage part, the softer part of the ribs, through the diaphragm
and into the liver. I could measure the
wound in
the liver fairly accurately,
and it was three
inches
deep, tapered to a point. So that the
overall length of the wound
was essentially approximately four inches.
It appeared to go vertically straight back, no deviation to his right or
left, and no significant deviation up or down. That wound was 42 and a half
inches above the sole of his right foot.
He was only five feet four inches tall.
Page 380
The other stab wound was 40
and a fourth inches, that is, about two and a half inches below the level of
the one in his chest. And it was in
his left upper abdomen. It
extended to the center line of his abdomen and was three-fourths of an
inch in greatest dimensions.
Actually, it was V- shaped, with the larger limb measuring three-
fourths of an inch and the
shorter limb, at right angles to it, measuring three-eighths of an inch.
The wound was two and a
quarter inches above @is navel. The sides, again, were smooth and the
angles were sharp, V-shaped,
with no bruising of
the skin. The path of the
stab wound was through is abdominal wall, through the margin of his stomach,
the greater, larger -- or greater curvature of his stomach, the outer portion
of his stomach, by five- eighths inch perforation, through the body of his
pancreas, through the superior mesenteric vein, in which I could measure
three-eighths inch perforations, slit-like perforations, in both the front and
the back of the vein. Then through the left renal vein, in which there were
one-fourth
inch perforations in both
the front and the back. And then the wound stopped just in front of the
Page 381
aorta. It was from his front
to his back and downward with no significant deviation to his right or left and
was approximately two and a half inches deep.
Q Dr. Embry, do you have an opinion or do
you have any knowledge of
what kind of weapon, in general terms, caused the cuts or those stab wounds
that you have described to the jury?
A only in very general terms, because a
wound can be actually deeper than the length 6f the blade, because the body can
give a certain amount when a stab wound is inflicted, but with respect to the
width of the blade, it would correspond fairly closely to the length of the
wound on the surface of the skin. And in
this case they were each approximately three-fourths of an inch.
Q Were you asked to examine either a
photograph or photostatic or photocopy of a knife
blade submitted to you by the forensic lab in
A Yes, sir.
Q That was of a knife blade; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you do an analysis or evaluation to
Page 382
determine whether or not
that blade width, length, was consistent with the wounds with Dr. Wilson
sustained?
A I did, yes, sir.
Q What were your findings?
A In my opinion, it was consistent with that
knife, the two wounds that he had.
Q There would be no way for you to say that
it was the knife; is that correct?
A No, sir.
Q Now, there were two separate sets of,
apparently, very serious types of trauma to Dr. Wilson; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Beginning, if you will, Dr. Embry, with the
head injuries, in your opinion were those injuries survivable?
A No, sir.
Q Then, getting to the cuts, the stabbing,
were those wounds survivable without medical attention, of course?
A No, they were not. The wound in his liver
perforated a branch of the hepatic vein and, of course, the other wound
perforated several
Page 383
vessels.
Q What Is the
significance of that?
A They would have not been -- they were
lethal wounds.
Q Is that a major vessel for carrying blood
throughout the body?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you have any way of knowing, based on
your experience, your education and your training, the length of survivability
that you would have expected from the time of the assault until the death in
both of these separate kinds of wounds; that is, first the laceration or blunt
force
trauma, then, secondly, the
stabbing?
A Well, in my opinion the stab wounds would have
been fatal within 20 to 30 minutes at the greatest. As far as the head wounds, I know that from
examination of his brain, there were
indicators showing that he
lived at least 30
minutes after he was beaten
in the head. And he could have lived
longer than that.
Q Any way for you to know with any kind of
empirical certainty how long he would have lived from either type of wound?
Page 384
A No.
Q Based on what you have?
A No, sir.
Q So what would be the range of
survivability, then, for the head blows, from 30 minutes to --
A Hours.
Q Hours?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what would be the shortest period you
would expect from the stab
wounds?
A 20 minutes.
Q 20 minutes. And the upper limit 30 minutes,
is that what you said?
A Yes.
Q Now -- and that is based on your training
and that is an expert opinion; is that right, Dr. Embry?
A Yes, sir.
Q You are comfortable with those figures?-
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you determine the cause of death of Dr.
Jack Wilson?
A Yes, sir.
Page 385
Q What did you determine the cause to be?
A well, in my opinion, he died from both
the head wounds and the stab
wounds. He did not bleed from the stab
wounds to the extent that he would have had he not had the head wounds. In other words, he only had about 250 ccls, which is about eight ounces, of free blood in his
abdominal
cavity. Had he just suffered the stab wounds, he
would have had much more f he would have had four times that amount., which
would have been the normal lethal amount of blood, the normal amount of blood
you see in a stab wound to the abdomen where the large vessels are
perforated. So I think he died of a
combination of the head injuries and the stab wounds.
Q All right.
MR.
FRY: Excuse me just one second.
(Brief pause.)
MR. FRY: Dr. Embry, that is
all I have.
If you will, kindly, sir,
answer whatever questions the defense would have.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DRAKE:
Q Dr. Embry, I'm Jack Drake. How are you?
Page 386
A Fine.
Q I take it that basically what happened is
that Dr. Wilson was savagely, brutally, beaten with some kind of blunt
instrument, probably this baseball bat, and stabbed twice, and as a result of
those injuries he died?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that basically what happened?
A Yes, sir.
Q And isn't it true, Doctor, that those kinds
of injuries, that is, the kinds of injuries that were inflicted, particularly
to his head, are consistent with him having been surprised in his house by a
burglar and they had a confrontation and the man beat him to death?
A Consistent with that, yes, sir.
Q Totally consistent with that, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You say you have examined 3500 bodies over
the past number of years that you have been employed in this position?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Have you examined the bodies of people who
have been victims of contract killers?
Page 387
A A few.
Q Isn't it true that contract killers
normally shoot their victims?
A Not in
Q What about the food that you found in Dr.
Wilson's stomach that I noticed in your report; can you tell us what you found?
A He had recognizable food, about a pint of
food, about 250 grams or a little over eight
ounces. It included some yellow particles that
were reminiscent of cheese,
some green beans, some brown material and some pieces of cut yellow vegetable
that was reminiscent of squash. And also some red material reminiscent of
tomato. And some green material that was
consistent with lettuce.
Q Were you able to determine how long that
food had been in his stomach?
A That's really very difficult to say. In the
absence of any factors that might slow down his digestion, I would say he had
eaten within the last hour. But there are factors which make it very difficult
to say that with great certainty. If a
person is frightened, for instance, the movement of food through the stomach
will virtually stop.
Page 388
Q Okay. Were you able to determine, with any
degree of specificity, when he died, the time?
A The best indicator was the circumstances.
Q Well, were you able to come up with a
time of death?
A In my opinion, he died shortly after he was
last seen alive.
Q Okay.
You told us that he was five feet four inches tall and I believe that
your report indicates that he weighed 122 pounds; is that' correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q He was a small person.
MR.
DRAKE: Thank you.
THE COURT: Any more questions?
MR.
FRY: Nothing else, Your Honor. And, of course, we would ask that Dr. Embry
be excused and released to go back to
THE COURT: Mr. Drake, do you know of any reason why he cannot
be excused?
MR. DRAKE: No.
THE COURT: Dr. Embry, you
may be
excused.
Thank you, sir.
We
are going to take a short recess,
Page 389
ladies and gentlemen. Please go into the jury
room.
(Whereupon,
the jury was recessed at
THE
COURT: Mr. Fry, are you ready?
MR. FRY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And are you gentlemen ready? MR. DRAKE: Yes, sir.
THE
COURT: Okay. Call your next
witness.
MR.
FRY: Call James Dennison White to
the stand, Your Honor.
(Brief
pause.)
THE COURT: Mr. White is indicted in this same case, is
he not?
MR.
FRY: He is a co-defendant, Your Honor,
charged with the same offense.
THE COURT: Mr. White is present in the courtroom and
Mr. Miller represents him. where is
Mr. Miller?
MR.
MILLER: Here, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: Mr. White, state your name,
please.
Page 390
MR. WHITE: James Dennison White.
THE
COURT: Mr. White, you have been called
by the State to testify in this case, the State of
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I have.
THE COURT: You are
advised at this time that you have a right, a constitutional right against
self-incrimination, you have a constitutional right not to testify in this
case. Have you been so advised by your attorney?
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir, I was.
THE COURT: And do you understand the admonition -- not admonition, but this instruction by the
Court?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE COURT:
What is your desire and what are your wishes?
MR.
WHITE: I wish to waive my right and be
a witness and testify in this case, sir.
THE COURT: It is your desire to waive
Page 391
your constitutional rights
and testify in this
case?
MR. WHITE; Yes, sir,
it is.
THE
COURT: Mr. Miller, do you have anything
to add to this?
MR. MILLER: None at all.
THE COURT: You do represent him?
MR.
MILLER: Yes, sir, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: It's his decision?
MR.
MILLER: It’s his decision by himself
and alone.
THE COURT: And he has made
it?
MR.
MILLER: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Are there
any questions, Mr. Fry?
MR. FRY: No questions
by the State, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Are there any questions by
the
defense counsel?
MR. COOK: Well, not about his waiver -- THE
COURT: I'm talking about his waiver
of
his rights.
MR. COOK: Oh, no. We
are glad that he waived.
Page 392
THE COURT: Then, Mr. White,
if you will stand, the Court will give you the oath and you will be permitted
to waive your constitutional rights to testify.
Stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the
testimony you shall give in this cause to be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE
COURT: Now, we are going to recess until in the morning at
(Whereupon,
the jury was placed in the jury box; at which time, the following occurred:)
THE COURT: Now, ladies
and gentlemen, we have reached a decision, due to the lateness of the hour, to
recess until -- and to adjourn until in the morning. And we will do so until in the morning at
In the meantime, do not discuss the case
Page 393
with anyone, permit no one
to discuss it with you or in your presence.
Now,
so that they may get things ready
for you, if you will, go
back to the jury room at this time. They
will be ready to take you very shortly.
And Court will be in
recess. Everybody remain seated until
the jury has had an opportunity to file back to the jury room.
(Whereupon,
proceedings were in recess at 5:35 p.m. , February 23, 1993, until the next
following consecutive day, February 24, 1993, at 8:30 a.m., at which time the
following occurred out of the presence and hearing of the jury:)
THE COURT: Mr. Fry, are you ready?,
MR.
FRY: State is ready, your Honor.
THE COURT: Defendant ready?
MR.
COOK: We are ready, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: And the witness, White, would you bring the witness around.
(Brief pause.)
THE COURT: Where is Roy Miller?
MR.
MILLER: Right here, Judge.
THE
COURT: Do you want to be up here?
Page 394
MR. MILLER: I would like to be.
THE COURT: Well, come
around.
MR. FRY: We can put a chair over on the other side,
whatever he wants to do. Going to be
here awhile, he may want to
sit down.
THE
COURT: Okay. Do you see a chair that we can put over
there?
MR.
FRY: Here's an extra one, Your
Honor.
THE
COURT: All right. Now, you are Mr. White?
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir, I am.
THE COURT: Mr. White, you
were sworn yesterday?
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir.
THE
COURT: Upon our adjournment. And
were advised of your
constitutional rights not to testify?
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir, I was.
THE COURT: You were told that you did
not have to and you waived
your privilege against self-incrimination?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I did.
THE
COURT: You do understand that
Page 395
anything you might say here
in this courtroom can and will be used against you in a court of law?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE
COURT: In the case against you?
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE COURT: You
understand that?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE COURT: Mr. Miller,
you represent
him?
MR. MILLER: Yes, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: And here, again, this morning you
re-affirm your waiver of your right
against self-incrimination.
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir, I do.
THE
COURT: Constitutional right.
MR.
WHITE: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: All right.
Bring the jury out.
(Whereupon, the jury was placed in the jury box; at which
time, the following occurred:)
THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Mr. Fry, are you ready?
MR.
FRY: We are, Your Honor.
Page 396
THE COURT: Defendant ready?
proceed. MR. COOK:
Yes, sir, we are ready to
THE COURT: Mr. Fry,
you may proceed.
JAMES
DENNISON WHITE
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Good morning.
A Good morning.
Q Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of
the jury who you are, please.
A My name is James Dennison White.
Q James, where are you from?
A I'm from
Q Where were you born?
A Born in
Q Where are you staying currently?
A Right now I'm housed in the Madison County
Jail.
Q Have you been brought down here for the
purpose of this trial?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Page 397
Q Are you a co-defendant in this charge?
MR.
DRAKE: I object to that
characterization. He used that term
twice
yesterday and this man is
not a co-defendant in
this case.
THE
COURT: Rephrase your question, Mr. Fry.
MR.
FRY: Yes, I will, Your Honor.
of Dr. Jack Wilson?
A Yes, I have.
Q Is that charge pending against you at
this time?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Is that the reason for your
incarceration?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Now, James, the Judge has explained to
you already this morning
that you do not have to testify in this case; is that right?
A Yes, he did.
Q Do you understand that?
A Yes? I do.
Q You realize what you say this morning can
Page 398
be used against you?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Are you willing to testify even though
what you say may be used against you in
a court of law?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where did you go to school?
A I went to school at A.H. Whatley Elementary
and I went to
Q Did you graduate?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q How far did you go in school?
A I went to the eighth grade.
Q Have you got any additional education other
than completing the eighth grade?
A Yes, sir.
While I have been housed in Madison County Jail, I have been taking my
GED
test, and I just took it
last week.
Q So you are working on your education?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Have you completed any of your GED courses?
A Well, I have already took the exam. I am
waiting to get my test results back now.
Page 399
Q What did you do when you dropped out of
school from wherever you were going?
A I went to work at Jack's Hamburgers, and
shortly after that I went into the military
service.
Q How old were you when you did that?
A I was 16 years old when I went to work at
Jack's Hamburgers, and I went into the
military service right after I turned 17.
Q What year would that have been?
A 1968 .
Q What branch of the Service did you go into?
A Went into the Army.
Q What was your MOS, or military occupational
specialty?
A Well, it's called 11 Bravo 10, but what
it
means is that I'm a foot soldier, infantry.
Q You were trained to be a foot soldier; is
that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you go overseas during the time you were
in the Army?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 400
Q Where did you go?
A First I went to
after I went to
more years and then I went
to
Q When did you go to
A In 1969 .
Q And when did you come back?
A June of 1970.
Q Where were you in
A I was on a place they called LD West, but
my rear stand-down area was called Chu Lai.
Q
A Yes, sir.
Q You were with the Americal
division; is that right?
A Yes, sir -- 196th Infantry Brigade, Americal Division.
Q What did you do -- what did you do when you
got out of the Army? When did you get out?
A I got out
Q And what did you do upon getting out of the
Army?
A I moved to
Page 401
Q Where did you go to work?
A I went to work at a fast food restaurant.
Q What did you do there?
A I was a short-order cook.
Q Do people call you "Cookie"?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you cook in the Army?
A I did for a while when I was in
Q Where did you pick up the name Cookie?
A There was a German girl over there, and one
night when we went downtown, me and some
other guys, she asked me what I done on
post, and I told her I was a cook, and
she said, 110h, you are a cookie."
See , all the guys just picked up on the nickname and started calling me
Cookie.
Q You said some people have known you as
cookie overseas?
A Yes.
Q Did you get married after you came back
from
A Yes, sir, but I was back about two years
before I got married the first time.
Q Where were you when you got married?
A Lawrenceville, Georgia.
Page 402
Q Was there a child born to that marriage?
A My first marriage, no, sir. The girl already had a child that I married
first.
Q Did that marriage last?
A No, sir.
That first marriage lasted
about
six months.
Q And what happened?
A She was running around, and she got
caught in my car uptown one
night, when I was at
work, with about seven or
eight guys inn the car with her.
Q Did you divorce her or leave her?
A We divorced.
Q Was that in
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Were you married again?
A Yes, sir.
I married a girl named Jane
Guthrie.
Q When and where was that?
A Also in
married
her in 1973.
Q Are there any children born of that
marriage?
A Yes, sir.
I have a daughter by her named
Page 403
Lorena Michelle.
Q How old is that daughter?
A Probably about 20
years old right now.
Q Are you in contact
with her?
A No, sir, I am not.
Q Was there a third marriage?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q When and where was
that?
A It was in nineteen seventy -- 1978. 1 married a girl named Mary Sue Woods.
Q And where did you marry her?
A I married her in
Q And were there children born between you
and your wife in that marriage?
A Yes, sir, there were two children.
Q How many?
A Two.
Q Two kids.
What happened to that
marriage?
A After about three years, there was
another problem of running
around and just
incompatibility.
Q Were you having some problems, too,
James?
Page 404
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q What was your problem?
A Alcohol and drug abuse.
Q Did that contribute to the breakdown of
your marriage?
A Yes, sir, it did.
Q Now, where are those two children?
A They are with their mother in
Q Are you in contact with them?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Do you get to visit with them or talk to
them from time to time?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q When was the last time you saw them?
A The last time I saw them was in 1991.
Q When was that, what time of year?
A Shortly after
Christmas. My oldest
A Shortly after Christmas My
oldest
son -- my oldest son went
back home to his mother, first, and shortly after that my oldest daughter went
back home to her mother. I had them
for about nine months or ten months. I
sent them to school for the year of 1990.
Q And then they went to live with their
Page 405
mother?
A Right.
Q And you were married, I believe, one more
time; is that right?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q When and where were you married for the
fourth marriage?
A I was married in
wedding. I married a girl named Cheryl Wilson at that
time. And that was back in 1983.
Q Were children born of that marriage?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q How many kids did you have?
A We had two.
Q What
are their names?
A My little girl'-- name is Kelly Renee and
my son is named Ethan Allen -- I mean, Ethan Clay. Excuse me.
Q Do you have contact with those kids?
A Yes, I do.
Q When have you seen them last?
A I haven't seen them since I have been
incarcerated.
Page 406
Q Prior to going -- how long have you been in
jail, James?
A Nine months.
Q Was that beginning in the latter part of
May of last year?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Had you seen your kids before being
incarcerated?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q How often did you see those kids?
A I seen them every other weekend and
sometimes I would get them -- if they
had a school break or something, I would get them and keep them
f
or a week or so.
Q Okay. And when -- how long did this last
marriage, this fourth marriage -- how
long did it last?
A Nine years.
Q And when did it end?
A It ended July of 1990.
Q How did it end?
A My wife was running around on me with
another man.
Q Who was that man?
Page 407
A His name is Terry Frost.
Q And is her name Cheryl Frost now?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Are you all divorced?
A Yes, sir, we are.
Q She and Mr. Frost then married?
A Yes, sir.
Q That's her last name today; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where were you living at the time you
were
divorced?
A we was living in Harpersville,
Q And is that anywhere near
A Yes, sir, it's about three miles
separation between Harpersville and Vincent.
Q Over there in that area of the country,
is -- Vincent, you say, is
close to Harpersville . Where is Childersburg?
A It would be about 10 to 12 miles down the
road from Vincent.
Q From Vincent where is Sylacauga?
Page 408
A Sylacauga would be about 20 miles on
further down the road.
Q From Vincent where is
A
Q Is it kind of a cluster of towns on
over there?
A Yes, sir, there is several different ways
to go from Vincent to
Q They are close to each other?
A Yes, sir, they are.
Q Now, James, you are charged with capital
murder, as you have already said; is that correct?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q You are represented by an attorney from
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Who is that?
A Roy Wesley Miller.
Q Is this Mr. Miller right here?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Do you remember when he was appointed to
represent you?
Page 409
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that?
A It was around May the 26th, May 27th, he
was appointed to me, of 1991.
Q Would that have been the day you were
arrested or shortly thereafter?
A Shortly after I got arrested.
Q Did you enter into an agreement with some
people in the Madison County District Attorney's office in regard to testifying
or giving information that you knew about this case?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q Who did you talk to about that? Do you
remember who they were?
A Well, my attorney came to me first, then I
talked to Detective Micky Brantley.
Q He is the gentleman seated to the right
of
Mr. Miller here; is that right?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q can you see him?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q Was he present when that agreement was
made?
A Yes, he was.
Page 410
Q Had you talked to him before the
agreement was made?
A Yes, sir, I had.
Q Do you know how many occasions?
A I would say at least four occasions I
talked to Mr. Brantley before the agreement was reached.
Q And is it because of that agreement you are
testifying here today? Is that a part of
it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Will you explain to the jury what you
understand the agreement to be that you made with the State of
DA's Office?
A My understanding was, if I cooperated
with the DA's Office
completely and fully, that I would be -- my charge would be lessened down to a
murder charge and I would receive a straight life sentence for my testimony
here today.
Q Were there any additional things concerning
corroborating what information you gave?
A Yes, sir.
I was told that --
MR.
DRAKE: I object to that; it's a leading
question. Also calls for a legal
Page 411
conclusion. Corroboration is
a legal principle.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q Will you explain, were there some other
conditions other than just giving information, James, in regard to your
understanding of the agreement?
A I was told that I had to give corroborating
evidence.
MR.
DRAKE: I object, Judge; got a smart
witness here, who is going to use the word even though you sustained the
objection.
THE COURT: Mr. Drake, just
make your objection.
MR. DRAKE: I object.
THE COURT: You don't have to present argument. Rephrase your question.
Q Okay. What I asked for -- don't use
legalese or legal terms, James. You are
not a lawyer. But were there any other
conditions other than just the fact that you testify in this case?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q What was that?
A I was told I had
to give corroborating evidence –
Page 412
MR. DRAKE: I object; one thing, it's hearsay, but it's
also the same objection I made previously.
He is drawing a legal conclusion himself .
THE
COURT: Well, sustained.
Q Were you required to do -- provide
information, James, to the DA's Office which could be confirmed by sources
other than yourself?
MR.
DRAKE: objection; it's a leading
question.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q James, let me ask you this: What is your understanding in this case if
you told the police
or told the DA's office
something that turned out
to be a lie to a material
fact?
MR.
DRAKE: objection; the agreement speaks
for itself. His understanding is not
admissible.
THE COURT: You want to -- do you object to the
introduction of that agreement?
MR. DRAKE: No.
THE COURT: Mr. Fry --
MR. FRY: I will come back to that, Your Honor.
Page 413
THE COURT: All right.
MR.
COOK: I have got the agreement, Mr.
Fry, if you would like it.
MR.
FRY: Sure . I just need a copy of it.
Q Let me show you what's marked as State's
Exhibit No. 9, Mr. White. I will put it on here
where I don't cover anything
up. Take a minute and look over that, if you will.
(Brief pause.)
Q What is that, what is State's Exhibit 9F
Mr. White?
A That's an agreement I made with the State
of
Q okay.
And does this contain all of the conditions, as far as you know, of the agreement?
A Yes, sir, they do.
Q Were there any side agreements or any
side deals other than what's
in writing?
A No, sir, there were not.
Q And as a part of this, you are to
actively assist in providing
physical evidence
establishing and corroborating
your statements incriminating Betty
Woods Wilson and Peggy Joy
Page 414
Woods Lowe in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
So it was more than just testifying, then; is that right?
A Yes , sir.
MR. FRY: We move this into
evidence as State's Exhibit 9.
MR. COOK: No objection.
THE COURT: State's Exhibit 9 is admitted.
Q one more question along that line. What is
your understanding or what is the agreement, regardless of your understanding,
of what will happen to you, Mr. White, if you lie in this case and I can prove
it?
MR. DRAKE: Objection;
the agreement speaks for itself.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q Okay.
So in the spring of 1991 were you living in
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q Or was it the place next to it, I'm sorry?
A I was living in Vincent.
Page 415
Q In a trailer court; is that right?
A We11 , shortly after me and my wife
separated, I moved to Sylacauga and stayed with my mom for a while. October of 1990, 1 received a settlement on a
workmen's comp case on -- where I fell and hurt my knee at work, then I bought
my own trailer and I moved back to Vincent on a piece of property I was
purchasing at the time.
Q When would that have been?
A Around October or November of 1990.
Q Of 1990?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you still married at the time?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q Now, in August of 191, where were you
living?
A Living in
Q And where did you live there; what kind
of home did you have?
A I had a mobile home on -- situated on my
piece of property that I was purchasing, which had
a house that needed
remodeling on it.
Q Were you buying the piece of property, is
that what you said?
Page 416
A Yes, Sir, I was.
Q And how were you buying that? Who were
you buying it f from?
A Buying it from a lady named Ethel Gates,
in
back to work.
Q Did you have a loan on that?
A No, sir, it was – she was financing it for
herself.
Q Okay. Now, where were you working in
August of 1991?
A I was basically just doing odd jobs for
myself , and I was doing some work at Vincent
Elementary School.
Q What were you doing at the Vincent
Elementary School?
A They had a new addition added on to the
school and the closets needed shelves put in them,
and I was asked to come and put in
shelves in the
c1osets
Q Had you had any training or experience,
Mr. White, in that kind of
work?
A Yes, Sir, I have been doing carpentry
Page 417
work for about 19 years.
Q What was the status of your employment with
the
A I was just basically doing the work to help
the teachers and stuff out, but the principal, Mr. Lowe -- not Mr. Lowe, but I
can't remember the principal's name, but
the principal was handing me money very now and then for the work I was
doing, and sometimes the teachers would hand money for the work.
Q So you never worked for the Shelby Board of
Education?
A No, sir.
Q Did they pay you cash or checks?
A Well, the principal gave me checks, some of
the teachers would had me cash money for the work I done for them.
Q For them in their classroom?
A Yes, sir.
Q About this time did you meet a lady by
the
name of Peggy Lowe?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 418
Q Did you know her before that time, that
is , August or the late
summer of '91?
A As far as knowing her, no, sir, I did
not. I had seen her around the school, because
that’s where my little girl
goes to school at.
Q Which daughter is
that?
A It would be Kayla.
Q And what grade is
she in?
A She started off in pre-school there. Her first school teacher was Mrs. Janice,
and then she went into the first grade.
Q In 1991 what grade was she in?
A First grade.
Q And you met Mrs. Peggy Lowe; is that right?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q How did you meet her?
A I was doing some work for my daughter's
teacher, Mrs. Melanie, by putting shelves in her
closet and on the walls and
stuff . And then some of the other
teachers got to talking to me about doing work in their classes, and I agreed
to it. And that's how I met Mrs.
Lowe.
Q When did you all establish any kind of
Page
419
relationship?
A At first, no, sir, we did not. First it just basically was to do some work
by hanging
shelves in her closet, also.
And then there was something said about, you know, for my work they would carry
me home and cook a nice dinner f or me
and we would go swimming in
the lake and stuff . And I misunderstood her and I thought she said her name
was Miss Lowe, not Mrs. Lowe, and I recompensed on that and she confirmed that
I had heard her say Miss Lowe.
Q Was
she married?
A Yes, sir, she was.
Q Did you all develop a friendship?
A Yes, sir, we did.
Q How did that friendship develop?
A It developed gradually and slowly.
Mostly started off with
telephone calls and stuff like this.
Q Who would call whom?
A Sometimes she would call me and sometimes I
would call her.
Q Where would you call her from?
A Most of the time it would be from my
Page
420
house.
Q In Vincent?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where did she
live?
A She lived in a little old place we call Renfroe, but it is in
Q How far is that from where you lived?
A It would be about -- from my house to her
house would be about 20 miles, because she lives down on the lake, which is
kind of back out in the country.
Q Do you have to cross a lake or a dam to
get to her house from your
house?
A Yes, sir, we have to cross Logan Martin
Dam.
Q So on the map, if you could see that
lake, you kind of got the lake in between the two of
you plus some ground, too, I guess?
A Yes, sir.
Q When did you all start having these
telephone conversations?
A I would say around the latter part of
September, the first part of October.
Q Did she ever call you?
Page
421
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q What did you talk about?
A Basically we talked about our
relationships and our
marriages and stuff like
that. And basically that’s the way the friendship
got started. She knew me and my wife very well and she
couldn't understand why Cheryl had left me because -- the term she used, that
Terry is a whole lot uglier than I am.
Q Well, she knew you were divorced. Were you
-- what was your condition, were you pleased to be divorced or upset about it?
A I was kind of upset, but I was kind of
carrying on with my life, also, which was hard for me to maintain.
Q Did Mrs. Lowe ever talk about her personal
relationship with her husband? I
believe you said she was married to Mr. Lowe?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q What is his name?
A His name is Wayne Lowe.
Q Where does he work?
A He works at
He is also minister of music
at First Baptist
Page
422
Church there in Vincent.
Q Did she explain to you what their
relationship was?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q What was that?
A Well , she told me that her and Wayne
hadn't slept together in five years, that they had separate bedrooms, she was
not happy with Wayne, but she stayed
with Wayne because -- she didn't want to
leave Wayne because it would mean her
children would have to get out of the use of the type lifestyle they were used
to living and having some of the nicer things that they were used to having.
Q Well, did you know what their lifestyle
was?
A Not until I started doing some work at
their home.
Q What kind of lifestyle did they have?
A They had well above my means.
Q where did they live?
A They lived on
Q Did they have a boat?
Page
423
A Shortly after they got there, Mr. Lowe bought
a pontoon boat.
Q How many kids did she have?
A As far as I know, she had three.
Q Do you know if they lived at home or not?
A No, sir. The only one lived at home
was
Stephanie.
Q And did Stephanie go to school?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q Where did she go to school?
A Went to
Q They lived in
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that because her mother was a teacher?
A I guess so. Because they had to drive
back and forth every day
through Vincent for them
to get to their job, so they
just more or less dropped Stephanie off at school every day.
Q Well, did you all ever express any feelings
toward one another during these conversations?
A Yes, sir, we did.
Q When did that kind of conversation begin
Page
424
to occur?
A I cannot really put a date on that, Mr.
Fry. I wish I could. But, I mean, it just
gradually started up,
talking about our
relationship and stuff like
that. And when it came out that we
-- she started showing feelings for me.
I had a very negative
attitude towards it, because
I constantly told her that
her children would not accept me because I consider myself a common man.
Q Okay.
When did -- what kind of feelings were you all expressing, then? You
said she expressed her feelings.
What do you mean by that?
A Well, one night we was having a
conversation on the phone, and she said, "I love, you.” And I thought I
misunderstood her, and I said, “What was that?”
And she
00 d h r
I
a
said, "What was
that?" And she said, "Well,
I
didn’t mean to say it, but,
“she said, “I do.” And,
I mean, just from there the
feelings really started growing.
Q Okay.
Now, you were arrested in May of ‘92.
In relationship to that time, when did these kinds of feelings begin
occurring?
A Well, I would have to say the latter part
of ‘90, first part of ‘91.
Page 425
Q okay.
You are saying '91, you mean '91
or '92?
A I mean, 1992, yes, sir.
Q The end?
A The end of '91, first part of '92 and
stuff.
Q You have been in jail since May of '92,
haven't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, did she ever express to you
dissatisfaction with her relationship with her husband?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q Would you explain what she said or what she
told you about it?
A She had told me she was very dissatisfied
with
Page
426
of their living would drop
down if they done that and stuff.
Q You said already, I believe, did you not,
that she told you they hadn't slept together in
five years?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well , did she ever say anything to you or
inquire about something happening to
A Yes, sir.
That's the way I originally
got involved in this
case. We got to talking and I asked her
why didn't she leave Wayne, and she told me, she said she wished something
would just happen to
Q What did you say?
A I jokingly told her that I had
connections and arrangements
could be made for something like that.
Q Did you have such connections?
A At one time I would have said yes, sir. At
the present time, no, sir, I don't.
Q Well, what happened after you told her
that?
Page
427
A Well, it got to be a more serious-type
conversation and stuff about it. And
it came
around that she had a friend
that was kind of in the same situation she was in, that needed something
done. And I hee-hawed around and --
because I was trying to win the woman’s affection, because to me she was the
type person I had dreamed of dating or being with ever since I was in high
school, because it’s a higher-type society person than what I was.
And the conversations kept
going, and I come to find out that it was her sister in
Q Did she tell you that?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q Did she tell you that all in one
conversation or did it take time for that to come out?
A It was over several conversations that
all of it came out.
Q So were you ever -- did you ever plan or
were you ever asked to do something bad to Wayne Lowe?
A She told me one time, she made the hint,
Page 428
I ought to go boat-riding
with
her why, and she said,,
"Boat accidents always happen."
Q Did you ever plan on doing anything to
him or did you ever take any
steps towards hurting Wayne Lowe?
A No, sir,
did not.
Q Do you know about what point in time it
would have been, Mr. White, that she began telling you about the sister in
A I'm going to take a --
Q If not the month, the time of the year?
A Shortly after the first of 1992 -- I'll
say around February or March -- is when it started
developing.
Q What did she tell you about her sister in
A Well, really, she never did tell me
anything about her sister. I mean, it
just started off as a conversation that she had a friend that had a problem that
she wanted to try to resolve, and
then when I found out it was
her sister, you know, I said, well -- you know, the conversation got to where
the sister's husband was almost dead, he was
Page
429
about to die, and stuff. I
said something about why don't they get insurance policies, and he can't get
insurance policies because he is so ill and stuff like this. She said her life was just miserable, the
husband was supposed to have been mistreating her and all this.
Q Did you know her sister or did you know
who the man was?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q At that time had you ever seen either one
of them?
A No, sir, I had not.
Q Now, during this period of time, up to
where we are right now in your testimony, James,
had you and Mrs. Lowe ever gone
anywhere together , gone on a date or gone out?
A No, sir, we met each other in
once.
Q Do you know where that was?
A We met at Kmart or Wal-Mart, one of the
department stores. Then we went over to
a little park about half a mile, three-quarters of a mile from the shopping
center and met in this little park.
Page
430
Q What happened there?
A We sat -- I sat in the car with her and we
kissed and hugged each other and stuff like that, nothing other than that.
Q Was anybody else present?
A No, sir, there was not.
Q She was a married lady at that time and
still is; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you knew that?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Had you continually -- was there
telephone calls still being made up until this present
time?
A Yes, sir.
Q How often did you all call each other?
A Three, four, five times a week, sometimes
six, seven, eight times a week.
Q How long did you talk to her?
A Sometimes we would talk a couple of
hours, sometimes might talk
only 30 minutes because Stephanie or Wayne would be around.
Q At some point in time did the
conversation get more
serious about this sister in
Page
431
A Yes, sir, it did.
Q When was that?
A I'll say it was around the end of March,
first part of April, of 192.
Q What changed about this?
A It got to be more pressure put on of
getting rid of the person in
Q Did you ever agree to do that or agree to
have it arranged?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What did you tell them?
A I told them that I knew a man that would
do a job like that, and I would have to
talk to him.
Q Who did you tell that to?
A I told that to Mrs. Peggy Lowe.
Q What did she tell you?
A She told me to go ahead and make
connections.
Q Was a price for this ever discussed?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q How did that come about?
A Well, I told Mrs. Lowe I had talked to
Page
432
the man, and I told her the
man said he needed $20,000 and there was a "squamble
and quamble"
about the price.
Q Was a price ever agreed upon?
A Yes, sir, there was a price of $5,000
agreed upon.
Q Did you ever actually talk to a man?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Where did the price of $5,000 come from?
A It was just a figure out of my head,
because I was trying to win Mrs. Lowe’s affections for me and the way she
talked, her sister was almost broke.
Q The way she talked?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you know her sister at the time?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Well, was any agreement made about the
price?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q What was that agreement?
A I told them I had talked to a man and he
said he had to have half the money up front.
Q What -- you are talking now to Mrs. Lowe;
Page
433
is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did Mrs. Lowe say?
A She said she would talk to her sister and
see what could be arranged.
Q Then what happened?
A Around the end or last part of April
middle part of April, last part of
April, Mrs. Lowe called me and she told
me, she said, "I have got
it." I said, "You have got what?" She said, "I
have got half the
money." She says, “I went to
Boaz, Betty was at Boaz, we
met at my mother's and Betty gave me half the money up front."
Q Okay. Now, when was that?
A I'll say around the middle of April or
last part of April.
Q What happened after that?
A I went to Mrs. Lowe's house and Mrs. Lowe
give me the money in a plastic bag, white with a black design on it.
Q Was anybody else there?
A She said Stephanie was in the house, but
I don't know, because I
never did see her myself.
Q During this period of time had you been
Page
434
in her house before?
A Yes, sir, I had.
Q Why?
A I was doing work for them, like I said,
carpenter work and stuff. They carried me in and wanted me to give a price on running some trim mold for
them, refinishing a floor for them and
little odd and end things that was not completed in the house, that Mr. Lowe
was trying to do himself .
Q When is the first time you remember being
in their house?
A I'll say around October of ’91.
-9
Q Okay.
Now, we are talking about the spring of
‘92, then. So you had been in the
house
as early as the fall of
191, then?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. James, I'm not asking you to go back
and remember exactly or precisely, but how
many
occasions do you think you had been in and out of that house by the end of
April of 192?
A Just a ballpark figure. I would say at least 15 or 20 times.
Q What kind of work, again, did you do
there in the house?
Page
435
A They were asking me about running some trim
molding and stuff , and finishing a floor , but as far as doing any work in the
house, I never did. Most of my work was done on the outside of the house.
Q On the outside of the house?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you had been at the house more than
inside the house?
A Yes, sir.
Q What kind of work did you do on the outside?
A I was doing some painting work on the
fascia boards and the front porch posts and stuff
like
that.
Q Would that be part of the 15 or so trips
you are talking about to her house?
A Yes, sir.
Q How
was this money paid to you, and by
that
I mean, I think you said $2500, was that cashier’s check or check or money or
what?
A It was cash money. It was three $100 bills
and the rest was in twenties.
Q What did you do with it?
Page
436
A I was real far behind on some of my
bills, and I caught my bills
up to date and stuff
My checking account was
minus $400 and something another, and I deposited $500 in my checking
account to get my checking
account caught up.
Q How long after receiving the money did you
do this, that is, catch your bills up and your checking account up?
A Probably within two or three days.
Q Okay. You say your checking account was
behind; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q About $400, is that your testimony?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, when your checking account is
behind, do -- I take that to
mean that you had some bad checks?
A Yes, sir. I had checks coming back to me
that I had to go pick up on several different occasions.
Q Where were you banking at this time?
A I was banking with the First Bank of
Childersburg, Vincent Branch.
Q Where is that from your home or where you
Page
437
were living at the time?
A It's about a block down the road from me.
Q How long had you been banking there?
A I had been banking with the First Bank of
Childersburg for about two years.
Q The same place?
A Well, I used the one in Childersburg and
the one in Vincent. I was using the one
in
Childersburg mostly because
I lived in Sylacauga,
but once I moved to Vincent,
I started doing all my transactions through the Vincent branch.
Q Let me show you an item I have marked as
State's Exhibit No. 10 and
ask you if you can
identify
that, Mr. White.
A Yes, sir, that's my check.
Q What's the date on that check?
Q Is that your signature?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q What's stamped on the top there?
A "Insufficient funds."
Q That's
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that a check that you wrote?
Page
438
A Yes, sir, it's one I wrote for Allen's Food
Market, which is a service station in Harpersville.
Q Is that a part of what you were talking
about being behind in your checking account?
A Yes, sir.
MR. FRY: Move this into evidence, State's Exhibit No.
10.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR.
DRAKE: No objection.
THE COURT: No. 10 is admitted.
Q I show you what I have marked for the
purposes of identification as State's Exhibit No. 11. Can you identify the contents of that
exhibit?
A Yes, sir.
It's also cashed at Allen's Service Station there in
Q Is that your signature?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q What's the date on that check?
A Looks like February 1st or 2nd or 7th, ‘92.
Q Was it also returned for insufficient
funds?
Page
439
A Yes , sir.
MR.
FRY: We move State's Exhibit No. 11 into evidence.
MR.
COOK: No objection.
THE
COURT: 11 admitted.
Q I show you State's Exhibit 12 and ask you
if you can identify the contents of that
exhibit.
A Yes, sir, this was also wrote the
1st/26/92 at Allen's Service Station in
Q And that check is for $20 and I believe
those other checks were small amounts, too, weren't they?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that one of the returned checks that
came into your account?
A Yes, sir.
MR.
FRY: We move State's Exhibit 12.
MR. COOK: No objection. We don't have any objections to all the
checks, just throw them
in together.
Q Let me just show you the rest of them,
then. State's Exhibits, for the record,
13,
Page
440
State's Exhibit No. 14 and
15, and ask you to take a minute and look at each one of those exhibits, Mr.
White.
A Yes, sir, all of these are my checks,
they are all stamped
"Insufficient funds," and it's all my signatures.
Q Beginning with --
MR. FRY: We move all
of these into evidence.
MR.
COOK: No objection.
THE
COURT: They are admitted.
Q Beginning with No. 15, is this a check
again to Allen's? Is that Allen's?
A Yes, Allen's.
Q Allen's Food Mart?
A Yes,
sir.
Q For $20?
A $20, 1st/22/92.
Q Was that check returned?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Check No. 208, dated
A $3.54.
Q $3.54 ?
A Yes, sir.
Page 441
Q Is this check also returned?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Where
is Allen's Food Mart?
A Well, the one I used is in
Q Was that close to home?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q I show you the last of those exhibits.
What is that?
A 1st and 24th, for $20, also wrote to
Allen's Food Mart.
Q Written on the 24th of January?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, when you tried to make up your
checking account, Mr. White, were those some of the checks -- or do you know if
those were some of the checks you were behind on?
A Yes, sir.
Some of those were the checks.
Q Had you had checks outstanding? Were
there checks, for instance,
at other grocery stores to be picked up?
A Yes, sir, there was. In fact, I went to
some of the grocery stores myself and picked up
some of them before they got
returned to the bank or,
Page 442
anything. I told them, you
know, my checking account was in the minus fund, if they would, just keep the
check and I'll come by and pick it up, because every time the check run through
the bank I was charged a $15 service charge.
And to keep from running it through there again and getting another $15
service charge put on, I asked the stores to hold them themselves and let me
come pick them up.
Q Is there a grocery store in Vincent, I
think it's within a block or so from your home'?
A Yes, sir, it is. It's called Associated
Groceries.
Q Okay. Associated, and that's different
from Allen's, that's a different place?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who owns that store; do you know?
A Mr. Smith owns that store.
Q Did you have some checks there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Were there some checks returned there?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q And after having received this
$2500, what did you do?
A I went and picked up some of the checks.
Page 443
Like I said, Mr. Fry, I
went picked up some checks, I also
deposited $500 in my checking
account to cover my minus
400-plus in my checking account. I took cash money, went and got my cable bill
caught up. I took cash money and went and paid my phone bill, because my phone
had been disconnected.
Q You say your cable had been disconnected?
A Not my cable, but my phone bill had -- my
phone had been disconnected. My cable
was on*the verge of being disconnected but it hadn't quite
been
disconnected.
Q Was it later on?
A Yes, sir, it was later on.
Q Let me show you what I have marked as
State's Exhibit No. 16. Can you tell me
what that exhibit is, Mr. White?
A It's my cable bill from Simcom
Cable.
The office we used is in
Q That's a pretty good cable bill.
A Yes, sir, it is.
Page 444
Q Was that for a month?
A No , sir .
Q How long was that for; do you know?
A That's probably about three or four
months' cable bill there.
Q Is this a bill that you received
indicating your indebtedness to them?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Is this one of -- did you ever pay these
people off?
A I got them caught up, but I think
eventually the cable bill got behind again and got disconnected.
Q All right.
This is --
A And it may be an outstanding debt today,
Mr. Fry, I'm not for sure about that.
Q You don't know the status of that?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q It says on here that this was billed from
the 1st of April through the end of April, 1992?
A Yes, sir.
Q As far as you know or looking at that,
would that have been an accurate statement of your account?
Page 445
A Yes, sir, it would be an accurate
statement, but if you also notice it says "Past due account."
Q Right.
So that was not only a statement, it was a past due account?
A Right.
Q And says your address was
A No, sir, it was
Q I'm sorry, 148. There is a zero on
there.
A Yes, sir.
But well, the zero don't belong
there, it's 148 is what it is.
Q okay.
And I believe this bill was actually taken from your mobile home at this
address; is that right?
A I was told it was. I wasn't present when it was took up.
Q But that is your bill?
A Yes, sir.
MR. FRY: I move this
as State's Exhibit No. 16.
MR. COOK: No
objection. And we don't have any
objections to any of his bills, if you have
Page 446
any more you want to put in.
MR. FRY: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cook.
MR. COOK: 16 admitted.
Q Where did you get your water?
A I got my water from
Q What was the status
of that account?
A It was also behind.
Q Let me show you what's been marked for
identification as State's Exhibit No. 17, Mr. White, and ask if you can
identify what this exhibit is.
A This is my water bill and garbage pickup or
whatever, there in
Q Okay. And what is the amount shown due
there?
A $58.29.
Q For water and garbage?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was that for one month?
A No, sir, about two months.
Q Was your water cut off?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q Okay.
MR.
FRY: We move No. 17 into evidence.
Page 447
THE COURT: 17 admitted.
Q Did you use any of that $2500 to catch
that bill up, Mr. White, or do you remember?
A If I'm not mistaken, I did, Mr. Fry.
Q Your water was not cut off, is that your testimony?
A That's right, it never was cut off.
Q Now, during this time did you have a telephone?
A Yes! sir, I did.
Q Let's begin with the fall of ‘91. Did
you have a telephone then?
A Yes, sir.
Q So when you talked to Mrs. Lowe from your
phone, it was your telephone; is that
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you ever call her from a pay phone?
A Yes.
I went down to Smith Associated Groceries and called her down at Smith Associated
Groceries, simply for the fact my phone did get cut off .
Q what was your phone number?
A 672-2624.
Q 2624?
Page 448
A Or 25. I can’t remember. It’s been
quite awhile since I have
used it.
Q Was that bill sent
to your house?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Do you remember when your phone was
disconnected?
A Well, the bill was never actually sent to
my house, Mr. Fry, because we don't have
post boxes in our yards. We have to use
a post office box. So it was sent to my
box.
Q It was sent to your post office box?
A Yes.
Q Was your phone cut off?
A Yes, sir.
Q Disconnected?
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that?
A I'll say sometime around the end of March
or first of April.
Q Did you ever have it turned back on?
A Yes, sir, I had it turned back on.
Q When was that?
A I think it got cut back on around April the
16th.
Page 449
Q Okay. Was that before or after you got
the money from them?
A It was after I received the money from
Mrs. Lowe.
Q Would it be fair to say that whatever the
date is that your phone was cut back on, it was after you received the money?
A Yes, sir, it would.
Now, James, you had been
working in the
fall of ’91, right.
A Some, not a whole lot.
Q Were you -- what was the reason for these
financial difficulties?
A Well, like I said, I received a workmen’s
comp settlement. All right. My lawyer advised me
not to go to work, simply
for the fact he was trying to get me started on disability, because I got a 30-
percent impairment in my right ankle and a 15-
percent
impairment in my left knee.
Q Okay.
You have got impairments. I'm
sorry. You went through that
a little bit quickly. Where, now?
A In my right ankle and in my left knee.
Q Right ankle and your left knee. Did you
Page 450
get some money because of
that?
A Yes, sir. February 1991, I received
$13,000
for the one on my ankle. October of
1991, I
received $21,000 for my
knee.
Q What happened to
that money?
A Well, my ex-wife, Mary Sue, in
my child support with her. I
took the other
money – I had all four of my
children at that time because Cheryl and Terry was having a hard time, neither
one was working, they were having a hard time, and I was keeping them two kids
for them while they found jobs and stuff. And I never in my life have been able
to carry my kids to town and say, "Buy what you want."
Q You bought them -- took them on a spree?
A Yes.
Q And by April, May of 1992, when we are
talking about now, did you have any of that money
1eft?
A Not sir, I did not. My kids received an elaborate Christmas of ‘91.
Q Was that out of part of that money?
A Yes, sir.
Page 451
Q Now, do you -- did you ever at any time
enter into a sexual relationship with Mrs. Peggy Lowe?
A Yes, sir, I did. It happened on May
15th.
Q You remember that date?
A Yes, I do, because she called me. It was on a Friday morning. And she called
me and she told me, she said, "I'm not going to school today." And
I asked her, I said,
"Do you want me to come over?" She said, "Yes." Shortly after I got there Stephanie called
her from school needing something or another from school after we had got into
some heated petting, loving, or whatever you want to
call it. I kind of got agitated. I said, "That's it. Just go ahead and do what your daughter wants
you to do." I said, "You run
to her any time she whines, cries, or anything." And it kind of upset her
and she turned around and she told me and she says, "I'm not going."
Q So she didn't go to school?
A Not directly right then.
Q Now, where did this occur?
A We wound up upstairs in her bedroom.
Page 452
Q Okay. Well, let me --
A It happened in her
home, Mr. Fry.
Q In her home?
A Yes, sir.
Q on the lake?
A Yes, sir.
Q In
A Yes, sir.
Q Across the lake
A Logan Martin Dam, yes, sir.
Q All right.
Who else was there?
A No one.
Q Your testimony is she called you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You went to her place?
A Yes, sir.
Q No one else was there?
A No one.
Q It started off downstairs; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And I take it that this relationship
ended or culminated
somewhere else; is that right? Where else did you go in the house?
A We went upstairs to her bedroom.
Page 453
Q Did you have sex there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Mr. White, without getting into any graphic
sexual details, is there anything you remember about being up there with Mrs.
Lowe, other than any sexual experiences, as far as how she was clothed, the
clothing she might have had?
A I remember she had on a white shorts
outfit, top tied at the waist, had three or four buttons on it and tied at the
waist. The shorts was the big legged
new-fashion shorts they had come out with, and her undergarments was kind of
the frilly, real pretty type.
Q Her underwear?
A Yes, sir.
They were kind of a pinkish- purple color.
Q Did you ever have a relationship with
Mrs. Lowe ever again?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Sexual relationship?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Now, that was Friday, May 15th; is that
right?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Page 454
Q Do you remember the next day?
A Yes, sir.
Q What happened on the next day?
A If I'm not mistaken, the night of the
15th, and it might have been
the night of the 16th, I'm not for sure exactly which day it was, but I drove
up to
to receive a book that I was
told wou1d be in the
back seat of Mrs. Wilson's
black BMW.
Q Now, who told you this?
A Mrs. Lowe.
Q Why were you going to
A Well, I was going to Guntersville to pick
up money to finance a trip to
Q Why did you need money, Mr. White?
A Because I was broke and I didn't have the
gas money to get there and back.
Q Had you spent the $2500?
A Yes, sir, I had.
Q Who gave you the instructions about going
to Guntersville?
Page 455
A Mrs. Lowe.
Q What did she tell you?
A She told me that if I went by
Q How much money?
A There was $200 in the book.
Q So did you go to Guntersville then on the
16th?
A Yes, sir. Like I say, I don't remember
if it was the night of the
15th or 16th, but, yes, sir, I did go.
Q Do you know -- did you ever talk to Betty
Wilson there?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Did you ever see Betty Wilson there?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Do you know why Betty Wilson was there?
A I was told it was an AA retreat or
Page 456
something or another that
was going on up there.
Q All right.
So what happened when you got to Guntersville, Mr. White?
A When I got there I started -- I got up to
the gate there at the State Park and I tried to go in, and the guard stopped
me, told me I couldn't go inside unless I had a room or I was going to rent a
room. An I proceeded to tell him what I
was there for, that I was there to pick up a book from Mrs. Wilson. And I asked him if there was any way he could
radio or get me in contact with her, but he told me no, but he told me about a
place back down the road, the little old service station and restaurant-type
thing, where there was a pay phone at, and told me I could go there and call
and he gave me the phone number.
Q Was he civil to you, was he nice to you?
A Yes, sir.
Q But he wouldn't let you in?
A No. sir, he wouldn't.
Q Do you remember about what time it was?
A I would say somewhere between
Q
Page 457
to that pay phone then?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What did you do -- excuse me. Where was
that, again?
A Somewhere coming back towards Guntersville
from the state park. I don't know
exactly where at, but coming back in between
Q Was there a pay phone there?
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q What
did you do when you got there?
A I called Mrs. Lowe.
Q Called Mrs. Lowe?
A Yes, sir.
Q Why did you do that?
A Because I didn't know what was going on,
I couldn't get in, you know,
and I didn't know what the problem was or what was going on. I called Mrs. Lowe to find out.
Q From that pay phone?
A Yes, sir, from that pay phone.
Q Did you call her -- do you remember how you
made the call, was it a collect, person-to- person, did you pay for it?
Page 458
A If I'm not mistaken, I called her
co11ect.
Q Did you actually talk to Peggy Lowe?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What did you all talk about?
A I talked about the fact that I couldn't
get into
Q Okay.
So did you call the front desk?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What did you tell then?
A I told them that I had drove quite a
distance to get there, and I was supposed to pick up this book from Mrs.
Wilson. And I asked them if
they could get in touch with
her and tell her I needed the book. And
I think I used the name
Rachel, I'm not sure, was
wanting the book.
Q Okay.
You said Rachel wanted the book?
A If I'm not mistaken.
Q What did they tell you?
MR.
DRAKE: Objection; it's hearsay.
Q Well , what did you do after talking to
do
you know who you talked to at the state park?
Page 459
A I think it was the security guard, I'm
not sure, but he told me he
would get back --
MR. DRAKE: objection;
hearsay.
Q Don't say what he said.
A Okay.
Q Was it someone that answered the phone at
the state park?
A Yes, sir, someone answered the phone.
Q And after having talked to that person,
what did you do?
A I went back to the gate, and then another
security guard came out of the park and brought me the book.
Q A second security guard?
A Yes, sir.
Q Let me show you what's already into
evidence as State's Exhibit No. 8. Take
just a minute, Mr. White, and look at that and feel free to thumb through it,
if you like.
(Brief
pause.)
A Yes, sir, this is the book be brought me.
Q That's the book he brought you?
A Yes, sir.
Q The Sleeping Beauty and the Firebird?
Page 460
A Yes, sir.
Q Well , what did you do with this book?
A I put it in my truck when I left.
Q Were you going to read it?
A No, sir, I had all the intentions of
getting rid of the book.
Q 0kay. Was anything contained inside the
book?
A Yes, sir, there was $200 stuck down where
the library card goes.
Q Would that be right where this card is
tucked down that says, "Date due”? Is that the library card?
A I guess.
It wasn't in there when I got the book, but the $200 was stuck down in
here, two $100 bills.
Q Two $100 bills?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, what did you do after receiving
this book?
A I left and came back to Guntersville. I stopped at a place called Conoco, which is a
service station, that sold
beer and wine and stuff. I filled up my truck with gas, got two packs of
Page 461
cigarettes and bought a case
and a half of pony Budweisers.
Q Did you make any other phone calls that
night, that you are aware of ?
A No., sir, I did not.
Q What did you do then, James, or, Mr.
White, after buying the beer?
A Well, I also bought a bottle of what we
call fast ones, which is across-the-counter caffeine tablets, which, if you
take enough, it reacts as a type of speed.
I took about 15 of them, started drinking the beer. I came on up to
I was told that he would be
out of town. If the truck was there
he was not out of town.
MR. DRAKE: Object,
unless the statement was made by Peggy Lowe.
He hasn't said who told him.
Q Who told you that?
A Mrs. Lowe.
Q So where did you go to in
A I came up by Mr. Wilson's home.
Page 462
Q Did you know where it was?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q How did you know?
A Mrs. Peggy Lowe give me directions to get
there.
Q And you went by there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What did you see when you got there?
A I seen a small, blue pickup truck sitting
in their driveway.
Q What, if anything, had Mrs. Lowe told you
to do if the truck was there?
A Not to worry about it, because that was
supposed to mean that Trey was at home.
Q Okay.
What did you do after seeing the truck?
A -I turned around and came back home.
Q Was that on Saturday night or early
Sunday morning?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know what time you got in?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q Had you been drinking?
A Yes, sir, I had.
Page 463
Q Taking those pills?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, when did you next have contact with
someone else in regard to this case, in regard to
the murder of Dr. Jack
Wilson?
A Well, I received a phone call from Mrs.
Wilson, and she asked me what was going on.
I don't know if it's permissible for me to use the word in court or not.
Q Let me back up. When did you receive
that phone call?
A It was probably two or three days later that
I received that phone call. It might
have been the very next day. I -mean, I really can't remember, because, like I
said, I was taking the pills and doing a lot of heavy drinking.
Q Are you sure she actually called you?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Two or three days after you had gone to
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, tell the jury, Mr. White, if you will,
what she said.
A She asked me what the fuck was going on.
Page 464
Q What did you say?
A I
told her that Trey was there, and I asked her, I said, “Do you want both of
them killed?”
Q What did she say?
A She said, no, she didn't want her son
killed.
Q What else did you all talk about?
A We just talked about when the job was going
to be done.
Q And when was it to be done?
A Well, it was never really no certain date
set on it, until it got closer to the time of the actual murder being
committed.
Q
What kind of weapon were you supposed to
use,
Mr. White?
A That I have no idea about.
Q Did you actually at this time intend to
kill Dr. Wilson?
A Yes, sir, I had pretty well psyched
myself up to do it, simply
for the fact that I was getting a lot of
pressure from Mrs. Lowe, and I felt
like I had to do it to prove
that I really loved her.
p@ve
Page 465
Q What kind of pressure?
A Just
calling me, telling me that her sister kept crying, calling her and crying, she
couldn't stand to be around Jack anymore, and it
was
getting to be too much, and she just couldn't handle it. Then the pressure got
on about if the crime didn't hurry up and happen she was going to have to pay
the $2500 back and things like this.
Q Who was going to have to pay the $2500?
A The way
Mrs. Lowe stated to me, she was going to have to pay it back.
Q Mrs. Lowe
was?
A Yes, sir.
Q In talking about the timing of this murder,
was anything ever mentioned about a trip?
A Yes, sir. when it got to be the first part
of May, getting close to the middle of May, Peggy called me and told me that it
had to happen before the 24th, because Betty and Jack were supposed
to leave on a trip going to
Betty
said she could not stand the thought of
having
to go out there and speed a week in the same
Page 466
hotel room with Jack.
Q So it was supposed to be done before that
trip, whenever that was?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Now, did you have a weapon -- after
talking to Mrs. Wilson or at the time you talked to her, Mr. White, two or
three days after this Guntersville trip, that I guess would have been on
a Monday or Tuesday, did you
have a weapon?
A Not sir, I did not. Let me rephrase
that. I had a .32, small caliber pistol , that
belonged to my ex-wife, Mary Sue, which had gotten burned up in a fire, and I
told her I would get it reconditioned for her, and I had went out once and
tried to buy shells for it but I could not find no shells for it.
Q It was a .32 caliber pistol?
A Yes, sir.
Q And those .32's, do they have different
kind of ammunition?
A Evidently
they do. This was a revolving-
type that I had never seen before.
Q I believe there is a .32 caliber short
and a regular .32 caliber;
is that right?
Page 467
A I guess.
I'm not that familiar with it.
Q My question is, were you ever able to buy
ammunition for that pistol that would f it?
A No, sir.
Q Well , did you ever -- how many times did
you talk to Betty Wilson on the telephone, do you recall, before -- on that day
you were talking
about or before the 22nd?
A I think I tried to get in contact with
her twice, and I was told by
ever who answered the phone that she was not home, but I think we actually
talked on the phone no more than three times to each other.
Q How many times did she call you, to your
best recollection?
A Once, to my best recollection.
Q Now, did you ever tell her or Mrs. Lowe
that you didn't have a weapon?
J
A Yes, sir.
Q When was that?
A I can’t remember
exactly the dates I told her,
but I told Mrs. Lowe I
didn't have a gun and I was trying to find a gun to do the crime with.
Q Well, did they have a response for that?
Page 468
A Well, I received a phone call on May the 20th
from
from Mrs. Lowe, and I was
told that they had
the tool and the equipment
to do the job with.
Q Had the tool and the equipment. Didn't
mention a weapon?
A No, sir.
Q Well --
A I was asked to meet them at Logan Martin
Dam.
Q
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you meet them there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Now, you live in Vincent?
A Yes, sir.
Q Mrs. Lowe lived in
A Yes,
sir.
Q I don't think that she lived in downtown
A No, sir, she did not.
Q Is Logan Martin Dam -- where is that
located in relationship to where she lived and where you lived?
Page 469
A You could almost say it's a halfway
point.
Q Close to halfway?
A Yes, sir, it's probably a little further to
her house from Logan Martin Dam than it was to mine.
Q And did you go there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q At whose instruction did you go there?
A Mrs. Lowe.
Q When did you go there?
A I went shortly after the phone call.
Q Do you remember what time that would have
been?
A I would say around
afternoon.
Q Where did you go at that dam?
A Coming from my house going towards Logan Martin
Dam, once you pull up on the dam there is a place over on the left-hand side of
the road that cars pull off and stuff, and they walk around the bank to fish
at. I pulled up in that small parking
lot area and that's where I waited for them.
Q How many cars can park in that little
Page 470
area?
A If they park right, you could probably park
about eight to nine there.
Q So it's a small area?
A Yes, sir.
Q Not a big parking lot?
A No, sir.
Q Was there anyone else there, that you
remember?
A No, sir.
Q What happened after you got there?
A I sat there and I waited. I was
drinking,
smoking my cigarettes and stuff. I sat
there,
kept waiting, kept waiting, and I kept
looking for Mrs. Lowe's car
and I never did see it. Then the next thing I know a black BMW pulled up.
Q Who was in it?
A Mrs. Betty Wilson and Mrs. Peggy Lowe.
Q Mrs. Lowe and this woman right over here; is
that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q You were looking at her when you said that?
A Yes, sir.
Page 471
Q Let's make certain for the record. You are indicating the woman sitting
between Mr. Hooper and Mr. Sandlin?
A Yes, sir.
Q This woman here; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q The defendant in this case?
A Yes, sir.
Q What happened?
A Mrs. Lowe got out on the passenger side
of the BMW and walked over
towards my truck. I opened the
passenger door, she had a white sweater- like thing in her hands, and she
opened it up and let the pistol fall out on the seat of my truck.
Q She let it fall out onto the seat of your
truck?
A Yes, sir.
In other words, she never did put her hands on it at all.
Q What happened to the sweater?
A She carried it back with her.
Q What did you do with the gun?
A I had a piece of a brown towel in my pickup
truck. I wrapped it up in that piece of
a brown towel and I went back to my home. In my old
Page 472
house there is some boards
missing of f the back porch, and I stuck the gun down through the hole and
shoved it up underneath the porch.
Q I'm marking as State's Exhibit No. 18 an
exhibit --
MR.
FRY And, Your Honor, for the
Court's benefit and everyone
else’s, and the jury, Mr. Smith, my investigator, has cleared this
weapon. This is a pistol. I want to ensure the Court it's not loaded.
Q And in doing so, Mr. White, I want to
show
you what is marked as State's Exhibit No. 18. MR. FRY: And again, for the benefit of
the Court, Your Honor, this
weapon is cleared and not loaded.
Q Let me show you this weapon or let me
show you this exhibit, rather. We are going to leave it in this bag when we
get through talking about it, but can you look at that weapon, James?
Is
that similar to the weapon you got?
A It's similar to the one I got. I cannot be for sure that's the one.
Q Do you have any way of knowing?
A No, sir, I have no way of knowing.
Page 473
Q Did you make a record of the serial
number or anything about it?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Is this the type of pistol you were
given?
A Yes, sir, it is. Same type hand grip and
all.
Q Okay. At the time you were arrested by
the police, taken into
custody, did you have the pistol at that time?
A Not on me, but it was on my property.
Q Let me ask you, what did you do with the
pistol that you received from Mrs. Lowe?
A Like I stated before, I wrapped it up in
a brown towel that I had in
my truck. I went to my house, there is
some boards missing off the back porch on the old house on my property that
needs remodeling, and I stuck the pistol in the brown towel down through the hole
where the boards were missing and shoved it underneath my porch.
Q And after you were arrested, did you tell
the police where to find that pistol?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Did you ever see it again after you were
Page 474
taken into custody?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Unless this is it right here?
A Unless that's it.
Q All right.
So now it's, I believe you said, the 20th. Would that have been a Wednesday?
A Yes, sir.
Q You had gotten the pistol. Was anything said at the time the pistol was
exchanged?
A The only thing that was said is to be
careful, which Mrs. Lowe preferred to me.
Q Mrs. Lowe said that to you?
A Yes, sir.
Q What happened after that? What did you do next?
A They
left and went -- and they told me I was going to get a phone call. They left and went toward Vincent. I left and went directly toward
Vincent to my home. I waited on a
phone call. At that time I received a
phone call from Mrs. Betty Wilson, and while we was talking on the phone, she
said, “0h, I don't have another quarter or something or another. Evidently the time was running out or
whatever. And I told her to give me
Page 475
the number and I would call
her back. The number that I was given, I
tried to call and tried to call and never could get through to the number.
Q Did you talk to her again that day?
A I talked to her shortly after I received the
pistol.
Q All right, sir. Now, when were you next given instructions,
assuming you were, if you were, about when and how Dr. Wilson was to be killed?
A Probably the first of the week, probably that same day, I was told to
go to his office and do it in his office for the fact it would be the best
place to do it at.
Q The first of that same week?
A Yes, sir.
Q Before you got the pistol?
A Yes, sir.
Q So that had already been discussed?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who told you that?
A Mrs. Lowe.
Q Mrs. Lowe.
So did you go to
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 476
Q Did you take the pistol with you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Where was the pistol when you went to
A It was where I told you earlier, where I
put it up underneath my back porch on the old house.
Q Was it wrapped in something?
A Wrapped in a brown towel, yes, sir.
Q When did you go to
A I came to
Q Early the morning of the 21st?
A Yes .
Q How early?
A I guess I left my home around
in the morning.
Q Where did you go?
A I went over on Whitesburg.
Q And that's in
A Yes, sir.
Q Is Whitesburg --
A Well, I went to exactly
Page 477
Q 333?
A Yes , sir
Q Had
you been there before?
A No.
sir, I had not.
Q What kind of neighborhood is that? Where
was this office that you went to?
A There is a hospital on one side of it,
there is a shopping center on the other side of it, there is an apartment
complex out behind it.
Q Do you know what time you arrived at this
place?
A I probably arrived about
Q Where were you in relation to Dr.
A For a while I was sitting in the parking
lot right there where his of f ice is at , then I changed positions and I moved
over and parked in
the back side of the
shopping center.
Q What was your intention?
A Well, my intention was to
try to do the job at his off ice like I had been asked to do by
Mrs. Lowe.
Q How were you going to do that?
Page 478
A I guess I was going to strangle him.
Q Did you have a rope?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q You didn't have the gun?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Why didn't you bring the gun?
A Because a gun makes to much racket and
I'm kind of gun shy, anyway,
from
Q When did you -- what happened after you
were waiting there?
A Well, I was told that he would be driving a
brown Mazda, if I'm not mistaken, and I kept looking and kept looking and kept
looking, but I never did see one that pulled up that looked the way it was
described to me.
Q Was there other traffic out and about at
this time of the morning in
A Yes, sir, there was.
Q Did you make a decision as to whether or
not you were going to try to kill Dr. Wilson that morning?
A I made the decision I would not.
Q Why?
A Because of the place the office was
Page 479
located, there was people
out jogging and walking
that early in the morning ,
and there was also a lot
of traffic and there was
people already starting to pull into the office parking lot.
Q So what did you do after you decided to
abort or to not carry
through with that plan?
A I went back over to the shopping center
over there and I got on the
pay phone and I called
Mrs. Peggy Lowe.
Q From a pay phone?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was that pay phone?
A If I'm not
mistaken, it was located
beside a grocery store, Wynn Dixie, there in a
shopping center.
Q Pay phone?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was it in a booth
or attached to the
side?
A Attached to the wall like with a little
thing that just came over the top of it.
Q How close was that to Dr. Wilson's
of f ice?
A Right across the street. I mean, as far
Page 480
as yards or feet, you know,
or mileage, I guess an eighth of a mile.
Q Could you see his office from the phone?
A No, sir, because of the buildings that line
the shopping center there kept you from seeing his office .
Q What did you do at that phone booth?
A I called Mrs. Peggy Lowe.
Q Called Mrs. Lowe. When would that have been?
A It would probably have been around
Q In the morning?
A Yes, sir.
Q And did you talk to Mrs. Lowe?
A I also talked to Mrs. Wilson down there,
other than Mrs. Lowe.
Q Talked to both of them?
A Yes, sir.
Q Your testimony is they were together before
on Wednesday?
A They were also together on Thursday morning, too.
Q You talked to them on Thursday morning?
Page 481
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you all talk about?
A Well, I told Mrs. Wilson I couldn't do
the job there and I didn't
have the money to stay overnight in
said, "Well, it will take me about three hours to
get there." And she described the place where she wanted
me to meet her at.
Q So she told you she would come to
A Yes, sir.
Q And told you where she would meet you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was that place?
A Parkway City Mall, at Chick-Fil-A.
Q Okay.
Now, Mr. White, what kind of place is Parkway City Mall?
A Just a big shopping center.
Q Big shopping center. Is it one of these shopping centers where
stores have their businesses that open up to like the center of a walkway or
whatever?
A Yes I sir.
You walk through the front door, you have got a big walkway that goes --
that
Page 482
goes down the center and
businesses on each side of the walkway. You have got some little businesses set
up inside the walkway and also some plants and stuff down through there, and
some benches set out in the middle of the walkway and stuff.
Q Have you ever been in the mall here in
A No, sir.
Q Have not been?
A No.
Q But it's a shopping mall?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where were you to meet her in the
shopping mall?
A At Chick-Fil-A.
Q Chick-Fil-A. Now, did you go there when you were supposed
to?
A I went there before I was supposed to.
Q When did you go there?
A I went there shortly after the phone
call. I bought some coffee and, if I'm not
mistaken, I bought me a sausage biscuit there.
Q All right.
What did you do, how long did you have to wait for Mrs. Wilson?
Page 483
A She told me it would take about three
hours, she told me to meet her there -- I think it was around 12 or
Q Did she meet you there?
A In a roundabout way.
Q How so?
A In other words, she went up in the line and
she ordered herself a sandwich, and I went up in the line and ordered myself a
sandwich. I went back out and sat down
in the benches in the middle of the walkway, and she walked over and she handed
me a bag and asked me to throw it in the trash, but I knew to look in the bag
because I knew there would be money in the
bag.
How
did you know it was Mrs. Wilson?
A Because I had seen her before, I knew
what she looked like.
Q The day before?
A Yes, sir.
Q Had she made an impression on you when
you saw her the day before?
A Just the fact of the way she looks.
Q So you remembered the way she looked?
Page 484
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you think she is an attractive lady?
A In a roundabout way.
Q But you remembered her then?
A Yes, sir.
Q She gave you $100 ; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q You said some money, I'm sorry.
A Yes, sir.
Q What was in that bag?
A Well, it was a $100 bill in the sack.
Q Did y’all have any conversation at all at
that time?
A No, sir.
I might have just passed a few words in the line, while we was waiting
to get a sandwich, asking her if they had good food.
Q Did you talk about Dr. Wilson or anything
to do with the crime?
A No, sir.
Q Do you remember who waited on you that
day?
A There was a little girl there with an
accent, her name was Christina.
Q Did she appear to be --
Page 485
A She was kind of tall , dark-headed, had
dark complexion, she was a real nice-looking young lady.
Q Did you describe her later on to Officer Micky Brantley?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Do you know her last name?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q What did you do after getting the money,
Mr. White?
A I went over to Kmart, which is across the
Parkway or whatever they call that street that runs down between Parkway City
Mall and Kmart across the street, I went over to the Kmart, I got a pack of T-
shirts, pack of undershorts, got a small traveling
kit with toothpaste, toothbrush, razors, stuff like that.
Q At about what time would that have been?
A That would probably be around
Q And that's across the -- I don't know if
you call it a freeway or what -- but the main drag that goes through
A Yes.
Q At Kmart?
Page 486
A Yes, sir.
Q How did
you pay for that stuff?
A I paid for it with a $100 bill.
Q Where did
you get that $100 bill?
A It came
out of the sack that I was asked to throw away from Mrs. Wilson.
Q After
Kmart where did you go?
A I went
and rented a hotel room.
Q Where?
A Ramada Inn.
Q Do you remember about what time that would
have been?
A that would probably have been around
Q Did you do anything to disguise yourself
when you checked in?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q What form
did you pay for your room,
cash,
credit card, or check?
A I used cash.
Q Do you have a credit card?
A No, sir,
I do not.
Q You paid
cash. Did they make you do something to identify yourself?
Page 487
A I had to show them my drivers license.
Q Showed them your drivers license. Was it your drivers license?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q With your name on it?
A Yes, sir.
Q A valid drivers license?
A Yes, sir.
Q Why did you check into the Ramada Inn?
A Wel1, I kept looking and that was the
first
one I came to.
Q Were you going to spend the night in
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q What was your intention about carrying
.7
out
this agreement about Dr. Wilson?
A I was, once again, going to try to commit
the crime at his office Friday morning.
Q So did you spend the night there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Did you make any phone calls from the Ramada Inn?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q To whom did you call?
Page 488
A I called Mrs. Peggy Lowe. I also called
my brother, and if I'm not
mistaken, I, called Mrs. Wilson, also.
Q Would that have been a long-distance
call?
A To who, Mrs. Wilson?
Q Yes, sir.
A No, sir, it would not have.
Q She lives in
A Yes, sir.
Q The Ramada Inn was in
A Yes, sir, it was.
Mrs.
Lowe would have been a long -distance call?
A Yes, sir, it would.
Q Your brother would have been a long-
distance call?
A Yes, sir, it would.
Q Did you have to pay for those calls?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q How did you pay for them?
A Paid for them in cash.
Q Is that required when you pay cash at a
motel?
Page 489
A Yes, sir.
Q They required you to, anyway?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you know about what time it would have
been you called Mrs. Lowe?
A Not right offhand, sir, because right
after I checked into the
hotel room and stuff, I
went
to Captain D's and got some food, and came back to my
hotel
room, I eat and I drank, and I would say I called her
Q In the
evening?
A Yes,
sir.
Q What did you talk
about?
A We just talked about our affections f or
each other, and she talked to me about how scared she was, she didn't want me
getting caught because she wanted us to have a life together and stuff .
Q All right.
Now, that Thursday afternoon, Mr. White, or any time before Friday, did
you go by Dr. Wilson's house on
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q When was that?
A What time of the afternoon, I cannot be sure,
Mr. Fry, but I drove by several
Page 490
truck,
then I went down to a church a pretty good distance from his house, then I kind
of went
through
the neighborhood like I was jogging and stuff.
Which, I mean, if anybody looked at me they could tell, I wasn’t a
jogger, because I had on a long-sleeve, f1annel shirt and a pair of 1ong blue
jeans.
I went jogging through there and stuff,
just looking and checking things out.
And then while I was there on
Q When was
that?
A Sometime
Thursday afternoon. As far as the hour or the exact time, I can't be for sure.
Q Did anybody see you over there?
A I think
there was a man that possibly could have seen me that was out in the yard doing
some type of yard work, trimming his lawn up with a weedeater
or edging his sidewalk, I forget exactly what kind of tool he had in his hands.
Q What was
the reason for going by the house that afternoon?
A Just to look and check things out.
Page 491
Q Did you go in the house that day?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Did I understand your testimony to be
that was the Thursday
afternoon before Friday the
22nd?
A Yes , sir .
Q Now, what was the
plan as far as Friday
was concerned, Mr. White,
assuming that there was a
p1an?
A
Well , Friday I was supposed to try to kill Dr. Wilson again at his
office. Mrs. Wilson called me early
Friday morning, she told me, she said, “Jack is at the office.” And I told her that wouldn't work, because it
was too well of a populated area, and that's when I discussed that she needed
to come and pick me up somewhere, carry
me to her house and get me
in and stuff like that, without being
seen.
Q
You decided to do it at the house; is that right?
A
Yes, Sir.
Q Was that your request?
A Yes, sir, basically.
Q Whose idea was it to do it at the office?
Page 492
A That was -- I presume it was Mrs. Wilson’s,
to start with, because, like
I said, the
first time it was mentioned
to me it came through Mrs. Lowe.
Q But the second time before the murder,
was it Mrs. Wilson that told
you that he was at the of f ice?
A Yes .
Q You could do it then?
A Yes, sir.
Q You
told her then that she would have to pick you
up and take you to the house; is that
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Why was that?
A Because of the populated area she lived in,
because I didn't want my truck to be seen, which I guess it had already been
seen in that vicinity, but it would have been easier because it wouldn't have drawed as much suspicion on me or anybody else, by me maybe
hiding in her car and her carrying me up to her house and getting me in
Q What kind of truck do you have?
A A 1984 Ford pickup
truck, F150.
Page 493
Q Are there any identifying marks?
A Yes, sir.
The left front fender was wrecked when I bought the truck. I bought another fender and put on there,
and it was white. And I bought a can
of spray paint, because the cap was supposed to indicate the color and the
color of the cap was about the color of the truck, but when I started spraying
the fender, it's a lighter blue than the rest of my truck.
Q You have a fender that doesn't match the
rest of the truck?
A Right.
Q what kind of wheel covers do you have on
that truck?
A I don't have wheel covers, I have what they
call quarter hole rims all the way around the truck.
Q Quarter hole rims?
A Yes, sir, they are chrome wheels.
Q Chrome wheels. So what happened Friday morning after this
telephone call? Did you ever get with
Mrs. Wilson?
A Well, I stayed in the hotel room all day
until almost checkout time, then I checked out,
Page 494
because the agreement had
been that she would pick me up at Parkway City Mall about
a can of -- a tube of
silicone caulking, and I
bought a can of carburetor
cleaner, and I went back over to Parkway City Mall , and I sat there and I put
some oil in my truck. I was cleaning out
my carburetor, you know, I was just tinkering around
on the truck until the tine
came for her to pick me up.
Q What was that time?
A She was supposed to have been there about
lot of Parkway City Mall
about
Q Let me ask you this
A Okay.
Q Where were you parked, to begin with, in
Parkway City Mall? Were you on the side that's close to the Parkway or were you
around to the rear or to the side of that building?
A I was parked up close to the Parkway
Page 495
where you came into the
Parkway City Mall parking lot.
THE
COURT: Mr. Fry?
MR.
FRY: Yes, sir.
THE
COURT: we have been here about time for
a break.
MR.
FRY: I'll agree with you entirely, Your
Honor.
THE
COURT: So we will take a recess. At this point might be a convenient time to
do that.
If you will, remember that
you were in Parkway City Mall.
MR. FRY: I am there, Judge.
THE COURT: Or the parking
lot.
Ladies
and gentlemen, please go into the jury room.
(Whereupon, proceedings were
in recess at
the following occurred out
of the presence and hearing of the jury:)
MR.
FRY: Judge, may we approach the bench? Jack or somebody.
(Brief pause.)
MR. FRY: Judge, I have just been
Page 496
informed that, my victim
service officer has been served with a subpoena, as has Mrs. Julia Wilson, who
has not been subpoenaed before this trial and has
been here all week. I want to bring this to the Court's notice,
she is part of my team.
MR. DRAKE: I don't
know anything about it. I will attempt
to find out.
THE
COURT: All right.
(Brief
pause.)
MR. FRY: I also
understand Bo Taylor is in the courtroom, Your Honor. He is under their subpoena.
THE COURT: Who is that, Bo Taylor?
MR.
FRY: Bo Taylor.
(Brief
pause.)
MR.
FRY: I'm ready, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Bring them out. (Whereupon, the jury was
placed in the
jury box; at which time, the
witness, James
Dennison
White, resumed the stand, and the
following
occurred:)
THE
COURT: Mr. Fry, are you ready?
MR.
FRY: Yes, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: You may continue.
Page 497
CONTINUATION OF DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY
MR. FRY:
Q Mr. White, let's pick up in the parking
lot at Kmart in
time did you testify it was
that you first saw Mrs. Wilson there in the parking lot?
A Well, it wasn't the parking lot of Kmart.
Q I'm sorry. We had left Kmart, we were at
the Parkway City Mall; is
that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you had testified, I believe, you
arrived there about what time?
A It was probably around
Q What time did you see her?
A She pulled in about
Q And how did you know what time actually
to be there?
A Well, the agreement was that she would
meet me at
Q okay.
So she was early?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was she when you saw her?
A She had pulled in and parked down close
Page 498
to the front entrance of
Parkway City Mall
Q Okay.
What was she doing when you first saw her?
A Well, after I pulled my truck down and parked
beside her, she got out of her car and came around, and was squatted down
behind the back of
her car tying a pair of
tennis shoes.
Q Tying a pair of tennis shoes?
A Yes, sir.
Q And where was that that you saw this?
A In the parking lot of Parkway City Mall
shopping center.
Q Let me show you what has been marked as
State's Exhibit No. 19, this is one exhibit tied together. Can you identify this exhibit?
A They look like the shoes she was tying
the day I seen her in
Parkway City Mall .
Q Do you know whether or not they are the
shoes?
A I cannot be positive that these are the
shoes she had on, but the shoes she had
on were like those.
Q Did you give a description of the shoes she
had on later on to the police officer?
Page 499
MR. DRAKE: Objection; any out-of-court statement made
by this man to anybody other than Peggy Lowe, Betty Wilson, is not
admissible. The next-to-the-last
page on our brief, Judge, McCoy
vs. State.
THE
COURT: Sustained.
Q You don't know whether these are the
shoes or not; is that right,
Mr. White?
A I don't know if them are the shoes or
not, but they are identical
to the ones that I seen her tying.
Q All right. What happened after you saw Mrs.
A She asked if I was ready and I told her
yes, and I got over in her car and we
left.
Q What kind of car was it?
A Black BMW.
Q Where did you get in the car?
A I got in the front seat and squashed down
between the floorboard and the front seat.
Q In the front part of the car?
A Yes, sir.
Q And how were you positioned?
A I kind of curled my legs up under me on
Page 500
the floorboard and laid back
in the front seat.
Q Where did you go?
A We went to her home.
Q Let me show you what's already gone into
evidence in this case as State's Exhibit No. P-13.
I ask you can you identify
that photograph?
A Well, looks like the front of the house I
went up to on Thursday afternoon.
Q P-14.
A This one I couldn't be sure about.
Q Okay.
First one you think that's the house you
went to on Thursday; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long did it take you to get there, do
you remember, from the time you left Parkway City Mall?
A No, sir, I do not remember exactly how long,
but I know it didn't take very long.
Q And where did you go when you got there?
A She pulled into a garage-like thing.
Q Okay.
Let me show you what is already in evidence as State's Exhibit
P-15. You recognize anything in that
photograph?
A I recognize the back of the car, the BMW,
Page 501
but other than that, I
don't.
Q Okay .Did she pull into a garage?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was it similar to this garage?
A Yes , sir.
Q Do you know whether or not it was this
garage?
A No,
sir, I cannot be for sure.
Q And what happened then, Mr. White, when
you got to the house and in the garage?
A I got out of the car, she opened the back
door, she handed me another $40 in cash money.
Q What was this for?
A That I have no idea what the $40 was for,
she just -- you know, there was nothing mentioned about it.
Q What did you do?
A She told me basically where his bedroom
was at. Had told me how to get to it. I
went in, went upstairs to what I presumed to be his bedroom.
Q Did you all discuss the plan?
A Not drastically a plan. She just said that she would call later on,
if the job was done just to pick up and hang right back up.
Page 502
Q Did you know where Dr. Wilson was at the
time you went to his house?
A No, sir, I did
not.
Q Did you know
when he was going to be
there?
A She told me he
would be home in about 30 minutes
Q About 30 minutes?
A Yes, sir.
Q So what did
you do?
A I sat there for a little while, then I done
as we had discussed previous before the crime, I might try to make it look like
a burglary. I had started going
through some drawers and stuff to see what I could find and what I couldn't find.
Q Did you see things of value in the house?
A There was some money laying around in
change
and stuff, but I didn't fool with it.
There was some jewelry laying around the house, but it looked like
costume jewelry. A real burglar would
have took the VCR’s and televisions and stereos and stuff like that.
He
did have stuff of value in there.
Q Was there silverware or serving sets?
Page 503
A I couldn't tell you, sir.
Q You didn't
look for it?
A I didn't go to
the kitchen.
Q Did you take
anything from Dr. Wilson's home, Mr. White?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Anything at
all?
A No, sir, I did
not.
Q Any money?
A No, sir.
Q Any weapon?
A No, sir.
Q Anything of
value?
A No, sir.
Q Well, what
happened after she left you? How long was it -- did Dr. Wilson eventually come
home?
A Well, to me it
seemed like a lifetime, but I guess it was about two and a half , three hours,
before he come home.
Q What did you
do while waiting on him to come home?
A Well, I was already taking prescribed
medication, plus I was doing pest ones, plus I had
Page 504
been, drinking Thursday and Thursday
night, the longer I waited -- the phone started ringing, the phone kept
ringing, and I started getting real paranoid and real scared and was almost had
completely left the crime undone.
Q The phone
rang, you say?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that
bothered you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you go
through the house while you were waiting on Dr. Wilson?
A Just mainly up
on the upstairs part of
the house.
Q Did you have
any tools with you to do the job?
A I carried a rope in with me.
Q Did you have a
knife?
A I don't know
if I had a knife or not.
They found one that I think I said it was possibly
mine.
Q Have you seen the knife?
A Yes, sir, I
have.
Q Is it your
knife?
A I'll say it's mine. It looks like the
Page
505
one I
carried in my truck all the time.
Q Now, how long was
it, do you think,
before
Dr. Wilson actually came home?
A Like I said, I’ll
estimate two and a half
to
three hours. Because, like I said, I was
drinking
and taking medication and doing fast
and as the phone kept ringing I got more
nervous
and more paranoid about it.
Q Were you
looking for Dr. Wilson?
A No, sir, I was
not.
Q Did you ever look
out any of the windows?
Did
you see anybody else around?
A I looked out, I presume it was Mrs.
9,
Q Did Dr.
Wilson come home?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where were you
when you first saw him?
A I had started
back down, I had come out
of
his bedroom going back downstairs when we run
face
to face.
Q How far
away from each other or how close
to
one another were you when you came face
to face?
A Very close.
Page
506
Q What
happened?
A He grabbed at me and we started
wrestling, and he had an
arm-hold on my arm and I started reaching for something or another to get
him loose, and I grabbed
some kind of object, which I have been told was a baseball bat --
MR. DRAKE: Object to what he
has been told.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A I grabbed something or another and I
started hitting the man until he turned me loose.
Q You hit him with something?
A Yes, sir.
Q Until he turned you loose?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was this that this occurred?
A Upstairs.
Q Close to -- upstairs where?
A Somewhere in the hallway.
Q What do you remember about the struggle,
Mr. White?
A I just remember he grabbed me and, like I
said, I was already paranoid, already real scared and nervous, he grabbed me,
we wrestled around.
Page
507
Like I said, I grabbed
something or another, I got my hand on something or another and I started
hitting him.
Q Was anyone else with you?
A No, sir.
Q You were by yourself?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was anyone else in the house?
A No, sir.
Q What happened after you began struggling?
A Like I said, I reached for something
or
another and I grabbed it and
I started hitting him until he turned me loose.
Q What was his condition when you left?
A I have no idea.
Q Did he stop struggling with you?
A Yes, sir, he did.
Q Where was he when you left the house?
A I presume wherever he fell out in the
hallway, wherever we run into each other.
Q Did you ever see him move?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q Did y’all have any struggle or any fight
anywhere other than where you have just described?
Page
508
A No, sir.
Q The upstairs near one of the bedrooms , is
that what you said?
A Yes, sir.
Q what did you do after the fight, what did
you do after the struggle with Dr. Wilson?
A After the struggle became apparent and I
got my hands on something and started hitting him with it, everything became
kind of foggy to me, because I really don't remember what happened. I don't remember exactly how many times I
hit the man or nothing else. All I know is when I came back to realization
I was in the woods somewhere out behind their house.
Q So you remember being outside of the
house
in the woods behind the house; is that right? A Yes, sir.
Q What were you doing out there?
A I was planning on leaving, presumably.
Q Well, what was the plan, how were you to
leave after the job was done?
A I was told that I could go down through
the woods behind her house.
Q Who told you that?
Page
509
A Mrs. Wilson.
Q Well , is that what you were going to do?
A Apparently so, but, like I said, I cannot
come back to recollection exactly what
my motive was, only thing I know is when
I came back to realization I know I was in the woods.
Q Did you leave through the woods?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Why not?
A Because when I came back to realization,
I was squatted down behind
some trees and stuff,
and I was looking around,
and I got to looking and all I could see was other houses and back yards and
stuff.
Q Why didn't you just leave?
A I don't know.
Q What did you do?
A I went back up to the house. About the time I got to the house, Mrs.
Wilson pulled up. I jumped in the car and told her to carry me back to
my truck.
Q She pulled up. Where did she pull up?
A She pulled up in the driveway going into
the garage.
Page
510
Q Did she go into the garage?
A I can't
remember if she did or not.
Q Did you all talk?
A Like I
said, I just told her -- I got in the
car and told her to carry me back to my truck.
Q Did she ask you anything?
A To my recollection,
I can’t remember.
Q Now, at that time
did you know if Dr. Wilson was alive or dead?
A No sir, I
did not.
Q Do you take the responsibility for his
death, Mr. White?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Where did
Mrs. Wilson take you, Mr.
White?
A She
carried me down to, I guess
remember
it being Whitesport, because I walked
beside
the shopping center where I had made the long-distance call from the pay phone,
and I
remember
walking by Mr. Wilson's office and I went straight down that highway there. And
the other road, I don't know.
Q Now, when you left going to Whitesport,
do
you remember anything being in the car that
Page
511
wasn't there before?
A Yes, sir.
There was some clothes and
some plastic bags and stuff
in the back seat, which
I used to cover up with.
Q So when you left the house you were in
the back seat; is that
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you
cover up with?
A Like I said, there were some clothes back
there in some plastic bags. All of them, I don't know, but the one that was
over my face was kind of
a
pinkish color.
Q Anything else in the car that you remember?
A No, sir.
Q Do you remember telling the -- well , do
you recollect anything about --
MR.
HOOPER: Judge, I object; that's leading.
THE COURT: Well, he hasn't asked --
MR.
FRY: I'll show him an exhibit, Your
Honor. I'll cover it.
(Brief
pause.)
Q Let me show you what's marked as State's
Page
512
Exhibit
No. 1.9, Mr. White. You want to look at
that?
MR.
DRAKE: Judge, this is just another way
of leading the witness. He can't
remember having seen the bag, so he's going to show it to him and see did he
see it in the car.
MR.
FRY: I can ask him to identify it.
MR.
DRAKE: Go right ahead.
Q Do you know what this is?
A Yes, sir,
it's a bank bag. I seen that bag or a
bag like that bag -- I'm not going to say that's the exact bag -- in the car when she picked
me
up at Parkway City Mall.
Q So you did
see something other than some clothes?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay.
A But it
wasn't after she picked me up, Mr. Fry.
It was at Parkway City Mall that I seen the bank bag.
Q Okay. I'm sorry.
So that was before then?
A Yes, sir.
Q Let me
show you State's Exhibit No. P-37,
Page
513
which is already into
evidence and let you look at that, Mr. White.
A The bag laying at the top of the stairs
looks like the one I covered my face up with.
Q The pink bag you have just pointed to at
the top of the stairs?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you have any way of knowing whether
that's the bag you actually covered your face with?
A No, sir, I have no way of knowing.
Q Did
it appear to be a bag like that?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, what happened after the defendant
let you out?
A I walked down the road past the shopping
center, past Dr. Wilson's office. I
went down to Taco Bell , I walked inside Taco Bell and got a large Mountain Dew
soda.
Q And where was it she let you out, if you
recall?
A It was at an intersection right across
from the shopping center where Winn Dixie is at, where I used the pay phone on
Thursday.
Q Do you know what time it was when you
Page
514
left Dr. Wilson's house?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q What did you do after getting the drink at
Taco Bell?
A I left Taco Bell and continued to walk
around behind Taco Bell, behind by a big open field that came out over close to
the Dairy Queen, and went on to Parkway City Mall and got my truck.
Q And where did you go?
A I went home.
Q James, what did you do when you got home?
By the way, did you stop anywhere on the way home?
A Yes, sir.
Once I got my truck, I started back toward my home by going back up
through Guntersville and down around through that way. I stopped at a service station right there
at Guntersville at the Holiday Inn. I
bought me some more alcohol, some more beer and some more cigarettes and bought
more oil and went on home. I called my brother from that service station, also.
Q Where did you go when you got home?
---
A When I got home me and my little
brother and his girlfriend, we went to a club.
Q Now, you were -- your testimony is you
Page
515
were
paid $2500 cash money to do this job; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q How or
when were you to get the balance
of
the 5 , 000 or the other 2500 you testified to you were promised?
A Well, on the conversation that me and Mrs.
Wilson had on the telephone from the hotel, she had said something about
leaving the money on the table for me to pick up on the way out. Then she changed her mind, she said, because
if Jack seen the money laying there, he may get suspicious and not go in the
house.
So me and Peggy Lowe had made arrangements beforehand,
that when she came up to console her sister and had to come back to get clothes
for the funeral and stuff, she said she would bring the money back to her house
and put it in a box that is inside Mrs. Lowe's garage.
Q All
right. Did you know what box she was
referring to?
A Yes, sir,
I did.
Q Had you
been in the garage before?
A Yes, sir,
I had.
Page
516
Q Was that when you were doing work as you
have testified to before?
A Yes, sir.
Q So did you go to Mrs. Lowe's house?
A Yes, sir.
I went over there on the day that I was told to go over there and the money would be there, but
the money wasn't there.
Q What day was that?
A It was on a Sunday.
Q Was there anyone else there, that you
know of?
A No, sir.
Q Did anyone see you there, that you know of?
A Yes, sir, there was-some people that live
in the house next door to them. As you pull down their driveway, there is a
house over on the right- hand side. There
was a man and lady outside doing some yard work, and I told them that when Mr.
Lowe got back home, tell him I had to pick up my ladder, some paint brushes,
and a paint pan, because my little brother was going to do some painting for
me.
Q Did you have stuff over at their house?
Page
517
A Yes, sir.
In fact, I still have stuff
over at their house.
Q Did you take some things with you? When
you left that day --
A Yes, sir.
Q -- did you take some things?
A Yes , sir.
Q A ladder?
A I took a ladder, I took a paint pan, and
some paint brushes.
Q The money wasn't there?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q Did you have any other contact with
either Mrs. Lowe or the defendant in this case
after that?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Now, when were you first contacted by the
police?
A I think it was on May 24th.
Q Do you remember what day of the week it
was?
A No, sir, not offhand.
Q Where were you at the time you were
contacted?
Page
518
A I
was on my job.
Q Where were you working?
A I was working at a Hickory Barbecue
Restaurant thing in
Q How long had you been working there?
A Well, I had worked the week before that for
about three days. And then when I -- I
didn't call in or nothing, I just took off, and I called them back and told
them I had to go to
see about my two oldest
children and I asked them to give me another chance to come back to work, and
they let me start back to
work.
Q So you started the week before; is that
your testimony?
A Yes, sir.
Q And from your testimony I take it you
were not there either Thursday or Friday; is that right?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q You had worked part of the week and been
gone part of the week?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that where you were working at the
time
you were taken into custody?
Page
519
A Yes, sir.
Q What were you doing there?
A I was a cook. Fixed sandwiches, fixed plates
to send out to the public. They set it up kind of like a fast food restaurant, they
didn't have no waitresses or nothing.
Q After being arrested, did the police ask to
search your vehicle?
A Yes, sir, they did.
Q Did you allow them to do so?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Did they ask to search your home or your
mobile home?
A At the time, no, sir.
Q At that time they did not?
A No, sir.
Q All right.
Mr. White, you gave -- do you have any idea how many times you talked to
the police after you were taken into custody?
A No, sir, I have no idea.
Q Had you talked to them before you were given
an attorney in the case?
A Yes, sir, I had.
Q Before Mr. Miller was appointed to
Page
520
represent you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You weren't always
honest with the
police, were you?
A No, sir, I was
not.
Q You lied about
some things?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Why did you do
that?
A Because I was
scared. I knew I was
facing a serious crime, and
I knew that I wanted to get it off my chest because I knew I needed to do
something about it because I knew I had done a serious wrong. And I fed them bits and bits of
information. I didn't know what the
outcome would come, and finally I just told them I wanted to talk to an
attorney.
Q Did you talk to the police before or
after
Mr. Miller was appointed to represent you?
A I talked to them before and I told them
some things that wasn't exactly true, because I was trying to protect Mrs.
Lowe.
Q And yourself?
A And myself, yes, sir.
Q Have you told the truth to this jury here
Page
521
today?
A Yes, sir.
Q How do you feel about what you have done?
A I feel very bad. I mean, I know I have
done a serious crime. I feel like I need to be punished but, you
know, I mean, I wish I could turn the clock back and undo it, but I can't.
I was in a very bad point in
my life. My wife had left me. After she left me I got back on my alcohol
and my drugs and I let the affections and the fondling of another woman towards
me --
MR. DRAKE: I object to this self-serving, ridiculous
statement.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q Don't make any self-serving, ridiculous
statements, Mr. White.
MR.
DRAKE: Well, Judge, I would like you to instruct him to answer questions. That's what
we
do in here, Mr. Fry.
THE COURT: All right,
Gentlemen, hold
up. Mr. Drake, I have sustained the objection.
Continue with your questioning.
MR. FRY: Yes, sir.
Q I believe you have answered my question,
Page
522
Mr. White.
MR. FRY If I could
have about two minutes, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: Okay.
(Brief
pause.)
MR.
FRY: Judge, that concludes our direct
examination.
THE
COURT: All right.
MR.
COOK: May I take a moment and -- I'm going to be all right to cross-examine
from here, Judge Younger?
THE
COURT: You may do so.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COOK:
Q Good morning, Mr. White.
A Good morning.
Q You and I have never met, have we?
A No, sir, we have not.
Q I'm one of the lawyers for Mrs. Wilson.
A Yes, sir.
Q And you have your lawyer present here in
court today?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that is Mr. Miller?
Page
523
A Yes, sir.
Q Notwithstanding the fact that you have
already greed to testify and you have
waived a11
of your rights under the
Fifth Amendment, you still have your lawyer here to assist you, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And he has been appointed by the Court?
A Yes, sir.
Q You understand, of course, I trust, the
importance of telling the truth?
A Yes, sir.
Q You do not, I suppose, consider yourself to
be a liar?
A No, sir.
Q You consider yourself to be basically a
very truthful person --
A Yes,
sir.
Q -- I take it, do you not? And your life has
been one of truth?
A Not always.
Q Not always. When do you lie? Is it when
it's to your advantage?
A It was -- Q When it will help you?
Page
524
A -- many years ago.
Q You have just lied many years ago. You have
not told any lies, I take it, about this case?
A When I was first questioned, yes, sir, I
did.
Q What about when you were later questioned?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Do you know what it means to be con wise?
Do you understand the word "con"?
A Not completely, sir.
Q You don't know what it means to con
somebody? Are you telling this jury under oath
that
you don't know what it means if you are going to con somebody?
A I know what -- in my definition of what con
is.
Q What is your definition? It might be like mine.
A It's trying to play a game on someone.
Q Trying to play a game on someone. To fool
somebody?
A Yes, sir.
Q To run a scam on them?
Page
525
A Yes, sir.
Q And throughout the many statements that you
have given, the seven statements that we have recorded that have been turned
over to us, you frequently use the word "scam," don't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you know what that means?
A Yes , sir.
Q And you have also referred to yourself in
all of these statements as being street smart?
A Yes, sir.
Q What does street smart mean to you, Mr.
White?
A It means I have no education, I know how to
survive on the streets by working by my hands and sweating of my brow to make a
living .
Q And you know how to operate?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And that's what street smart means to
you. You
have a convenient memory, don't you?
You remember things that you want
to remember but you don't remember the things that you need to forget; right?
A If you say so, sir.
Page
526
Q It's not if I say so. You are the one
that I want to say so. Isn't that correct?
A Well, I think I have a pretty good memory
myself.
Q You have a pretty good memory yourself.
You were in
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you shirked your responsibilities and
deserted your post and fled, didn't you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q You didn't do that?
A No. sir, I did not.
Q You remember Capt. Brandon?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q You don't remember your commanding
officer?
A No, sir.
Q Wasn't Capt. Brandon your commanding
officer?
A That's been a long time ago. I couldn't tell you.
Q You
don't remember your commanding officer?
A We worked as a squad, not as a division
Page
527
or a company.
Q Are you telling this Court and jury under
oath that you do not remember Capt. Brandon as
being your commanding
officer?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q You said on direct examination a little
while ago that you were working on your GED?
A Yes, sir.
Q What is a GED?
A It's the equivalent of a high school
education.
Q And you are working on it now?
A No, sir.
I have took the test, I'm waiting on the test scores to come back.
Q I thought you already had your GED.'
A I probably have took a GED once.
Q Well , have you -- do you have your GED?
A Yes, sir, I should have it.
Q Did you have it five years ago?
A I think I took it in the military service
one time.
Q Well, did you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, then you don't have to work on it,
Page
528
then, do you,, you have
already got it?
A Well, I'm trying to further my education.
Q My question is: You told the jury on
direct examination
it was the third question
that was asked you that you went to the eighth grade and you
were working on your GED?
A Yes, sir.
Q You had it years ago, didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q So when you told them you were working on
it, you didn't tell them you already had it, did you?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And that was sort of wrong, that was a
little misleading, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, I guess.
Q Yeah. That was lying just a little bit,
wasn't it?
A If you say so, sir.
Q Well, do you say so?
A To me, I don't consider it a lie.
Q Well, what was the reason for telling that?
A If you get a GED in 1968, and the
Page
529
mathematics and the way the
world is moving into computer programming and stuff like that, the test
I took in Madison County
Jail to further my education is a whole lot harder than the one I took back
then.
Q Take that.
Have you ever seen that
before, ball bat?
A No, Sir.
Q Never seen it
before. You tell this
Court and jury under oath
you have never seen it before?
A No, sir
I have not.
Q Is that the ball bat that you took on the
afternoon of May 22nd and beat this man to a pulp and killed him with it?
A I don't know, sir.
Q So you don't remember anything about that?
A No, sir.
Q So it's your testimony as you sit here on
the stand today under oath, that you have
absolutely no recollection
of hitting repeatedly and repeatedly Dr. Jack Wilson with that ball bat
or any ball bat; is that
right?
Page
530
A No, sir, it's not.
Q Is that correct, that you don't remember it?
A I made the statement that I remember
grabbing something and
hitting Dr. Wilson with it until he let me go.
What the object was, I do not know.
Q But you just hit him -- ever what you picked
up, and you don't remember what it was, you just hit him enough until he let
you go. Do you expect the jury to believe that?
A That's hard to answer, sir.
Q Yeah, it is hard to answer, isn't it?
And tell the jury and the
Court, if you will, after you got through beating him with whatever object that
you picked up, how many times you struck him with a knife.
A I don't remember doing that.
MR.
COOK: May I have the knife?
(Brief
pause.)
Q You said someone had told you that was your
knife. Is that your knife? You ought to
know.
A It looks like the one a foreman gave me one
year in construction work for Christmas.
Page
531
Q Is that your knife?
A I'll say it's mine. It looks like the
one I carried in my truck
all the time.
Q And where was it when you went into Dr.
Jack Wilson's house?
A I don't remember.
Q Did you take it with you?
A As far as I remember, no, sir, I did not.
Q You did not take it with you. Is that the
only knife you own?
A No, sir, it's not.
Q And where was the other knife?
A I own several pocket knives.
Q But you don't remember taking any pocket
knife with you?
A I remember having one small knife with
me.
Q When did you remember that?
A I have always remembered it.
Q You mean with you that night?
A I remember having it with me when I came to
Q Did you have it with you when you went into
Dr. Jack Wilson's house?
Page
532
A No, sir.
As far as 1 can remember, I left all my personal belongings in my truck
except for
my truck keys.
Q So is it your testimony as you sit on the
stand today, that you had no knife with v U'>
A Yes, sir.
Q And that you didn't stab him?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that you don't know what you hit him
with?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you left all of your personal goods
in your truck?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you take with you?
A I took me, myself, a bag with a rope in
it.
Q You had a bag with a rope in it?
A Yes, sir.
MR. COOK: Let me see
the rope.
(Brief
pause.)
Q This is a rope. Is that the rope you took with you?
A Yes, sir, looks like the rope I carried
Page
533
with me.
Q That looks like the rope you carried with
you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And Mr. Fry didn't ask you about that
rope or didn't show that
knife, did he?
A No, sir, he didn't.
Q So you went into Dr. Jack Wilson's house,
you tell this jury, with this rope in a plastic bag; is that right?
A Yes , sir .
Q And what kind of plastic bag was it?
A It's a white bag with handles cut in it and
had a black design on it.
Q A white bag with handles cut in it and it
had a black design; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, that's the truth, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q And that was the color of the bag, white
and black?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's the one you took into the
doctor's house?
Page 534
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q All right.
And I'll bet that's the same bag that Peggy Lowe gave you the money in,
wasn't
it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q And you have already testified to that?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was a white and black bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q It was, now, May he 20th that you got the
gun ?
A Yes, sir.
Q You are positive about that?
A Yes, sir.
Q You didn't have a blackout on the 20th,
did you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you didn't have amnesia, didn't fall
off the truck or hit your head anywhere on the 20th?
A No, sir.
Q And it was, as you have said, that before
you went to the
to
Page 535
what you said, isn't it, or
is that right?
A No, sir.
Q Oh, you are going to change that?
A That is --
Q What did happen?
A I said I went to
Q So you didn't go to
A No sir
Q You never told Mr. Fry that?
A Told Mr. Fry what?
Q That you went to
MR.
FRY: Your Honor, I object; it's
irrelevant what he told me. If I
misspoke on opening statement, that's my problem. It's relevant what he told
me.
MR. COOK: I'm not suggesting
that Mr.
Fry misspoke, I'm suggesting
quite to the contrary, that the witness misspoke.
THE COURT: Continue with your questioning.
Q Did you tell Mr. Fry, the District
Page 536
Attorney who is prosecuting this
case, that before you went to the
to
A No.
Q So you didn't tell him that?
A No, sir.
Q Have you used any aliases, any different
names?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q What are the names that you have used?
A Cookie, which is a nickname they hung on
me. Then I used my stepdaddy's
name up until I was about 20, 21 years
of age, which is Howell, H-o-w-e-1-1.
Q Have you used any other names?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q What is the date of your birth?
A
Q Have you ever given any different date of
birth?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q
A No, sir, I have never given no different
Page 537
birthdate.
Q Have you ever used any different Social
Security number than your original one?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q You don't know why the FBI records would
show that?
A No, sir, I do not.
MR.
FRY: Your Honor, I object to that; that's highly improper.
THE
COURT: overruled.
Q The white bag with the black design on
it, have you seen that
recently?
A No, sir, I have not.
MR.
COOK: Do you have that that I could see it, a white bag with the black design?
(Brief
pause.)
Q That must not be it.
A No, sir, that's not it.
(Brief
pause.)
MR.
COOK: I would ask the Court to inquire of the District Attorney if there is
indeed a black bag with a white design --
MR. DRAKE: White bag with
black design. MR. COOK: White bag with a black design.
Page 538
He has exhibited a red bag
with a white design -- or white bag with a red design.
MR. FRY: I don't know of a bag like that. MR. COOK:
Good.
Q Well, what did you do with that black
bag -- the white bag with
the black design, sir?
A I told Mr. Brantley where it was at.
Q I didn't ask you that. What did you do with it, not what you told
him.
A When I came back to realization down in
the woods, I stuck it down in a hole up under a rock behind Mrs. Wilson's
house.
Q So the white bag with the black design,
you took it and put it under
a rock?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what did you put in it?
A There was clothes in it.
MR. COOK: May I have
the red bag -- white bag with the red?
MR. FRY: Sure, you can have
it all.
MR. COOK: I don't want
all of it, I just want the bag.
Q Let me hand you what I will ask the
reporter to identify as Defendant's Exhibit No.
Page 539
No. 11, 1 apologize.
(Brief pause.)
Q I hand you this bag, brown bag, which I’m
sure you are not familiar with it, an evidence bag, and that contains a white
plastic bag with this
red. Have you ever seen that before?
A No, sir, I haven't.
Q Yeah, you have never seen that before.
So you certainly didn't put anything in that bag,
did you?
A At my recollection, I didn't.
Q Well, your recollection is pretty good,
isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You are a truthful fellow, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you took what and put it in a white bag
and black bag?
MR. COOK: I offer this in evidence.
MR.
FRY: No objection.
THE
COURT: No. 11 is admitted.
Q What did you put in the white bag, white and
black bag?
A I put clothes in it, and that piece of
Page 540
rope was in it.
Q What else did you put in it?
A If I'm not mistaken, I -- some surgical
gloves were put in it.
Q Put what?
A Surgical gloves.
Q Surgical gloves. And where did you put that?
A Like I stated before, when I came to the
realization I was in the woods behind Mrs. Wilson's house, I stuffed it up
under a rock in a hole.
Q When did you come to the realization --
when did you come to the realization that you had put the white bag with the
black -- white and black bag with those items under the rock, when did you
remember that you had done just exactly that?
was over two months later,
wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q Any particular reason that you didn't recall
that?
A All I can tell you is I was on prescribed
medication, which is Lithium. My lawyer
fought and fought and fought for me to get my medication while I was in the
county jail , and I was denied my
Page 541
medication.
Q Are you on medication now?
A No, Sir, I'm not.
Q And it took you over two months to recall
that? If anyone says that you had put it
in this
bag, that would be a lie,
wouldn't it?
A Yes, Sir, to me it would.
Q Yeah, because it didn't happen, did it?
A As far as I can remember, no sir.
Q And that would raise something up in this
case as being sort of funny,
wouldn't it?
A Yes, Sir.
Q Yeah.
You have made at least seven statements in this case to police officers
and to members of the prosecution team, that recordings were made of, haven't
you? Isn't that correct?
A I don't think it's quite that many.
Q How many would you suggest that it was?
I
have seven here before me.
A I can't actually remember how many I have
made.
Q Well, what is your best recollection of the
ones that were made in which you were aware that recordings were being made?
Page 542
A I would say at least five.
Q At least five?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you remember the statement that you
made on
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Well , you said a moment ago, you told
this Court and jury, that you were trying to
protect Peggy Lowe. You involved her on that date, didn't you?
A I implicated all of us on that date.
Q On the 26th?
A Yes, sir.
Q So when you said you were trying to
protect her, that was not exactly a truthful statement, was it, Mr. White?
A Not on that part, no, sir.
Q That was a lie, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You lied to the jury a few minutes ago,
didn't you?
A If you say so, sir.
Q Well, isn't that what you said? How can we
--
Page 543
A
Well, I answered the question that way, but there is things that -- well
--
Q How can we tell when you are lying?
A All I can tell you, sir, is I made peace
with our God and I'm trying my best.
Q Is that when you open your mouth?
A
What is that, sir?
Q Do you remember the statement you made on
May 27th?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Do you remember the one you made on May
29th?
A I
made several statements, sir, but I don't remember exactly what they said.
Q Do
you remember the one you made on June the 4th? Do you remember the one you made
on June the 24th, on July the 28th? You
don't remember any of those?
A I
remember making statements, but I need to be clarified on what statements you
are talking about.
Q
But you remember that after you killed
Dr. Jack Wilson, and you have no recollection
of
it, that you went
to the Taco Bell and got you a big
Page 544
Coke, you remember that, don't you?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Yes, sir.
MR.
COOK: I 'm going to ask the
witness -- the scope of my cross-examination
is going to be in reference to various statements, and in order that he can follow me, I would
like to ask the opportunity to give him
copies of those statements which we have gotten in discovery. I think that it is proper.
THE COURT: You may
do so.
MR. COOK: And I think it is more fair. THE
COURT: You may do so.
(Brief pause.)
MR. COOK: Let the record show that I'm handing the
witness copies of his statements of May 26th, May 27th, May 29th. And this is the June 4
and 5, Jim.
MR. FRY: All right.
MR. COOK: That's combined. June 24 and July 28th.
MR. FRY: Thank you.
Q Now, I'm handing you these statements,
because from time to time, I 'm going to be
Page 545
asking you questions about those, and I want
you to see that ever what I refer to in that document, that I quote it
correctly. Do you understand?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Let's just talk a little bit about -- you said that when you went to Dr. Wilson's house, that
Peggy had told you how to get there?
A Yes , sir.
Q
Right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Had anybody given you a map of how to get to
Betty's house?
A No,
sir.
Q That never happened, did it?
A
Which one are you talking about?
Q I say that never happened, did it?
A What, somebody giving me a map or telling me
how to get there?
Q
Somebody giving you a map.
A No, sir.
Q On May the 26th, at page 13 there, if you
want to check it, did not you tell Mr.
Brantley that you had a map of how to get to Betty's house, referring to Betty
Wilson, and that she had given
Page 546
you a map? You want me to help you with it?
(Brief
pause.)
A It's wrote down here, yes, sir, it is.
Q Well, did you tell them that?
A It is my recollection --
Q I didn't ask you that.
A My statement was that I was given
directions how to get to Betty Wilson's house.
Q My
question is, it is written down on that document, that you said
A It's written down there.
Q That you told Mr. Brantley that Betty
Wilson had given you a map as to how to get to her house. My question is, did you tell Mr. Brantley
that, not what your recollection is?
A
No, sir.
Q So if it's down there, if he wrote it down,
then Mr. Brantley is just telling something false about it, right? Is that what
you want to tell the jury?
A No, sir.
Q
Well, who is lying?
A Well, I would say both of us are telling
the truth.
Page 547
Q
Both of you are telling the truth.
So when you said you had a map, that Betty Wilson had given you a map to
get to her house, that that was the truth, that's not the truth, is it?
A No, sir, I had a map how to get to
Q Yeah.
Had she given you the map?
A I had directions.
Q
Had anybody give you a map?
A
No, sir.
Q Then that' s a lie, isn't it?
A It would apparently be.
Q
Yeah. Well, don't you agree with me, don't you just agree with me one time, that that's
another lie?
A I
can't agree with you on that.
Q
Didn't you just say it was?
A I
agreed with you, yes, sir.
Q You agree with me. All right. Since you agree with me on that, let's go
on to something
e 1 s e .
A
Okay.
Q Okay.
The $2500 that you say that you
got as a down
payment, you lied about that, haven't
Page 548
you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q Oh, you have not?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q
Let me see if you have. Look at the May 26th document on page 12.
(Brief pause.)
Q Is
that the one you have?
A Yes, sir.
Q You told Mr. Brantley, did you not, that
you went to a location and got the money and you would not say where you got
the money; isn't that right?
A
Yes, sir, I did.
Q Why wouldn't you say, if you are telling
Mr. Brantley that you got $2500 to perform this killing and you have already
told him that Peggy Lowe and Betty Wilson were involved in it, why did you not
want to tell him where you got the money? Did you want to think about it and
make up something?
A
No, sir, I did not.
Q What was your reason for it?
A I
guess I would have to say trying to
Page 549
protect myself because I was without an
attorney.
Q Trying to protect yourself. And you say you haven't lied about where you
got your money?
A
No, sir, I have not.
Q
All right. May the 27th is the next statement. It was a tape recording and you might want
to hear it during the lunch hour. On
page 7,
if you want to refer to it. Mr. Brantley said, "And she gave it to
you?" Referring to the $2500. And you said "No, sir. I was told where it was at and told to pick
it up." The next question was, "Where was that?" Answer: "It was on the side of the road going
towards
That
was a bald-faced lie, wasn't it, Mr. White?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q
Yeah. And you didn't have any
problem with that, did you?
A
Yes, sir, I did.
Q
Oh, did it bother you?
A Yes, sir, it did.
Q It bothered your conscience?
Page 550
A
Yes, sir, it did.
Q How long did it bother you?
A Until I decided -- until I made peace
with our God and decided to tell the truth.
Q And when was that? When did you decide
to tell the truth
and when did you make that peace? A
When my attorney came and told me the
best thing to do was to tell the truth.
Q So
when your attorney got there you saw the light?
A No,
I'm not saying that.
Q Are you telling this Court and jury that
when your lawyer got there you started
to tell the truth, but don't you know that you kept on lying?
A No,
sir, I did not.
Q You did not.
Well, when did you get this money,
this $2500? Think hard, now.
A Sometime in the end of March or first part
of April is when I got the 'money.
Q And you know that?
A
Yes, sir.
Q You have known that all along?
A I
have known it all along, yes, sir.
Q End of March or first of April?
Page 551
A
Yes , sir
Q Why would you tell anybody that you got
it at a different time if you had known that
all along?
A I don't remember telling anybody I got it
at a different time. I remember telling
--
Q Look at June 24, look at the statement
you gave on June 24. Turn to page 2. And you might want to listen to that tape
during the lunch hour, Mr. Witness.
(Brief pause.)
Q You said you got the $2500, you told Mr.
Brantley that you got the $2500 on the 4th or 5th of may?
A Sir, it's been a long time.
Q I didn't ask you whether it had been a
long time or not.
A Well , there is a possibility I did make
that statement.
Q Was it a lie? You said a moment ago that you knew when you
got it, was that another lie? If it
was a lie, just turn around and look at the jury and tell them it was a lie.
A To my recollection, it was not a lie.
Page 552
Q
Well, did you get it on the 4th or 5th of May?
A
No, sir.
Q So if you told somebody you got it on the
4th or 5th day of May -- let me put it in a
chocolate
candy for you -- that was just not the truth, was it? That was just a
lie?
A I don't remember making that statement
either.
Q Look and see if it's not on there.
A
I'm not doubting your word, sir.
Q I want you to look. I want you to look. June the 24th is the
statement, page 2.
A Yes, sir, it's there.
Q It's there. Why would you have told him that if that
wasn't the truth? Did it just not make any difference to you what you tell
people?
A It makes a lot of difference to me,
because I don't want to lie to the jury, I don't
want to lie to you.
Q Well, it's all right to lie to me, but
don't lie to the jury.
A I don't want to lie to anyone, let alone to
myself.
Page 553
Q
Was it all right to lie to Mr. Brantley? A No, sir, it was not.
Q
Well, did you lie?
A There
is a possibility I misquoted some days, because it's like I told everybody, I
couldn't recall dates exactly.
Q Memory has gotten a lot better, hasn't it,
now that you are in jail and you have made this deal?
A
No, sir.
Q Your memory has improved almost daily,
hasn't it?
A No, sir.
Q What?
A No, sir.
Q This gun, this .38 Smith & Wesson
revolver that you got, there is no question about where that came from, is
there?
A
No, sir, there is not.
Q You are absolutely positive about that?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q
And that certainly didn't come from Jack Wilson's house, did it?
A No, sir, it didn't.
Page 554
Q
And because if it came from Jack Wilson's house, you would have had to
have taken it out, wouldn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you wouldn't steal, would you? You are not a thief , are you?
A
No, sir, I'm not.
Q You have just never been a thief , have
you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q And you have always prided yourself on
the fact that you are not a thief , because
people that steal, just chronic thieves, are pretty bad folks, aren't they? You
couldn't believe much of what they said, could you?
A Well, I'm not going to say -- I can't
answer that question.
Q You wouldn't go that far, would you?
What? I
say, you are not a thief, are you?
A Well, I'm not going to say I haven't, you
know, drank a soda somewhere in a store and then get in a conversation and walk
out without paying.
That's the same as stealing, you know.
Q I don't mean that. I don't mean that. I
Page 555
mean just common thievery.
A No, sir.
Q Have you ever stolen any automobiles?
A I was involved with two auto thefts, yes,
sir, but I was not the one that took them.
Q I
guess somebody else took them?
A
Yes, sir, they did.
Q You didn't serve any time for that, did
you?
A I was locked up, but I never was
convicted
of it or served for it.
Q Have you ever told anybody that you
served a year for two automobile theft
charges?
A I stayed in jail for a year, but I never
was charged, never went to court.
MR. COOK:
May I approach the witness, Your Honor? May I approach the witness?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. COOK: Identify this, please.
(Brief pause.)
Q
People just from time to time accuse you of things that you just haven't done, don't they?
A I was with the people.
Q
You have just taken a bad rap at times,
Page 556
haven't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q People have abused you, haven't they?
A No, sir.
Q
And the Government has been hard on you, haven't they?
A
No, sir.
Q Much of your problems have been with the
Government?
A
No, sir.
Q These are your records from
A
No, sir, I haven't.
Q Says, "He also --I' Look and see what it says there.
"He also related that he had been in jail twice for approximately one year each after
auto thefts several times."
A That's not the statement I made.
Q Oh, you didn't make that statement?
A
No, sir.
Q So what they did, when this doctor
let's
see who the doctor was. This doctor here, Dr. Irwin Lewis, a medical doctor, when he wrote that
down on your records, he just gave you a bum rap,
Page 557
didn't he?
A Well, I don't remember him. You also
need to tell me what I was in the hospital
for.
Q Why don't you tell me what you were in
the hospital for.
A I was in the hospital for drug abuse,
alcohol, and attempted suicide.
Q So you don't -- you don't remember making
that statement at all?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q
You said you didn't make it, didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q So you deny making it?
A
I'm not going to deny making it, I'm just going to say I don't remember
making it.
Q You say a lot of things and then your
excuse later becomes that you don't remember,
right?
A
No, sir.
Q Well, what about this gun, this .38 caliber
Smith & Wesson gun? When did you learn that you got it on May 20th, because
every statement, every statement that you gave, that is before you now, over a
period of many months, was that you had
Page 558
gotten it --.you remembered
specifically getting it on a Tuesday, May 12th, and then you changed it to a
Tuesday, May the 19th, and yesterday was the first time that I had ever heard
it was the 20th. When
did you come up with the
20th? Did you have a dream or see a
vision?
A No, sir.
Q Well, when did it come to you that it
wasn't on the 12th or the 19th, that it was on the 20th? When did that come to mind?
A Because I got to thinking about when the
crime happened and when I received the weapon.
Q My question is: When did you first
tell -- just a minute. When did you first tell anyone at this
table, Mr. Brantley or Mr. Fry or anyone, that it was on May 20th and not on
the 12th or 19th?
A I can't remember exactly what day it was
I told Mr. Brantley I got
the gun on the 20th.
Q So you can't remember which day it was?
A When you have no way of keeping up with
days or time, it's hard to remember what days or what time is what.
Q Well, do you know now?
Page 559
A I know where I'm at, I know what the day is
, but if I was in jail I wouldn't know because we don't have no calendars or
clocks.
Q Do you know when you got the gun?
A I got the gun on May 20th.
Q Well , when did you learn that you had
gotten it on the 20th? When did it come
back to you in a flash?
A That I can't tell you.
Q Did you just wake up some night and you
thought that, well, it's the 20th, or was somebody pushing you in that direction?
A Nobody was pushing me.
Q Would it have been as much as a week ago or
a month ago?
A That I have no time frame on.
Q You don't have any time frame on that
A You know, I just can't remember.
Q -- at all?
MR.
COOK: Could we have the calendar, that
big calendar? would you get that?
(Brief
pause.)
Q Do you remember on May 27th in your
statement saying -- it's on page 6 if you want to
Page 560
see if I am quoting it
correctly. "Oh, there was
one statement I left
out. This past Tuesday was about two
weeks ago that Ms. Lowe and Ms. Betty Wilson brought me a .38 Smith &
Wesson pistol to commit the crime that was committed with."
Do you remember making that
statement?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q And you remember that it was on a Tuesday
two weeks ago, and that statement was on
May 27th?
A I remember making the statement, yes,
sir.
Q And you remember definitely that it was a
Tuesday?
A At that time I was almost positive that
it
was on a Tuesday they brought me the
weapon.
Q You are almost positive that it was on a
Tuesday?
A Yes, sir.
Q Then on May 29th, you have got your
lawyer now. On May 29th on page 4, if you want to
follow me. You said, "This past Tuesday was two
weeks ago, Ms. Wilson and Ms. Lowe brought me a .38 Special Smith & Wesson
to Logan Martin Dam." You
remembered it right on the nose then on May 29th.
Page 561
And Mr. Miller, your lawyer,
was there, wasn't he? You had talked to him about it, hadn't you? I'm not going
to ask you what you told him.
A I imagine I have talked to him.
Q And you said again -- you said again that
it was on the 12th; right?
A I guess I did.
Q Well, was that right?
A Like I said, sir, I can't remember. It's like I told them when they first started
questioning me, I couldn’t
remember the exact dates and stuff. But as I
sit in my cell from day to day and realized the seriousness of the case,
things came back to my memory.
ut s I
Q When you realized the seriousness of your
case and the situation that you were in and the
times and things that were
necessary to do, your memory cane back pretty quick, didn't it?
A No, sir.
Q You said it was on the 19th, also?
A Yes, sir.
Q Right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was on a Tuesday?
Page 562
A Yes, sir.
Q And now you have got it on the 20th?
A Yes, sir.
Q For a third version. And when was the 20th? What day was that on?
A The 20th was on Wednesday.
Q So it was on Wednesday the 20th?
A Yes, sir.
Q And now you are real, real positive about
that?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q And you are real positive about the time
that you were out there, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was between 4 :30 and 5 o’clock?
A I think my statement said five -- between
Q Between
A Yes, sir.
Q Right.
And you were right there and nobody was there but you and Ms. Lowe and
Ms.
A Right.
Q And I guess that was on May 20th, and
Page 563
that's the first time you
saw Mrs. Wilson, I
believe
you said; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And she brought the gun, Ms. Lowe brought
the gun over in a white sweater and just sort of slipped it out on the seat?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you took it home and you put it
under the floor?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's certainly the truth, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q And what had you been doing that day?
You
said you were sitting there in the car
drinking. What were you drinking?
A Beer.
Q How long had you been drinking?
A
Probably since about
afternoon.
Q Been
drinking since about
afternoon. How much would you say that you had
drank
or consumed?
A Probably about 18 beers.
Q About 18 beers. Well, let's talk about
Page 564
that a little bit. On May
29th you were asked the question by Mr. Brantley, and the question was,
"Did you have anything
to drink at that point in time," referring to the time that you got the
gun, and you replied, "I think I had one beer, because I had just got home
from work when I received the call."
That's a pretty big story,
isn't it?
A Well, yes, sir, it is.
Q That's sort of a -- in fact, that's what you
would call sort of a ballpark lie, isn't it?
A I guess you would.
Q Yeah.
Did that bother you any when you lied to Mr. Brantley here after you had
your
lawyer, when you told him
you had one beer and knew you had had 18? That didn't bother you, did it, or
did you get back to your cell and your conscience started bothering you?
A I can't remember all the things, sir,
but
-- I mean, I do have an alcohol problem.
Q Yeah, but you didn't have an alcohol problem
in jail, did you? You have sobered up now?
A Well, I'm getting there.
Q You are getting in better shape, aren't
Page 565
you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was a big lie, wasn't it?
A I guess so.
Q Yeah.
And you certainly -- it certainly was not so that you went to the
order to steal or steal any
money or take a gun, anything of that sort? That wasn't the reason that you
went there, was it?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q You went there with this rope to get him;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And it had nothing to do with money or
stealing?
A Didn't have nothing to do with stealing,
no, sir.
Q That's right, because you really are not a
thief and that's against your moral code, isn't it?
A There is a lot of things against my moral
code.
Q Killing is not, but stealing is?
A Killing is, too.
Page 566
Q Yes.
And you went there having no desire at all to steal; that was not the
reason that you went there?
A I'm not going to say if there was money
in the house I wouldn't have
took it.
Q Yes.
And you certainly did not take that gun out of the house when you went
in there and
after you killed Jack
Wilson?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q And you have never -- you certainly would
never have told anybody that, would you?
A If I had done that I would have told
them,
but I didn't do that.
Q Oh, yeah, I know you would. You would have
told the truth about it if you had done it,
wouldn't
you?
A Yes, sir, I would have.
Q But you certainly have not told anyone
that, have you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q Go to your record, the taped statement on
May 29th, page 26. Look at it, if you want to look at it.
A Page what, sir?
Page 567
Q 26,
Mr. White.
(Brief pause.)
Q The question from Mr. Brantley was,
"Let's go back to your trailer when you got home
after this crime. Was there anything
that you took home with you?" And you replied, "No, sir.” And
Mr. Brantley said,
"That we might find in your trailer?" And you said, "No, sir.” And then he said, "If we did a search
warrant, would we f
A I thought Mr. Brantley was talking about my
house.
Q You just mixed it up; right?
A It says if he got a search warrant for my
house, he wanted to know if he could
come up with anything from my house.
Q If he had found anything that you got home
-- that you took home with you from his house after the crime, that's what he
says. You just misunderstood that, I guess?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 568
Q And you just misspoke on that; is that
right?
A I guess so.
Q You put that gun under the porch, didn't
you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You didn't put it under a wood pile, did
you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q And you certainly wouldn't have told
anybody that you put it under a wood pile, did you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Don't you know that I have before me a
statement in Mr. Brantley's handwriting in which
you told him just exactly
that, that you put the gun in a wood pile? Do you deny telling him that?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q So if Mr. Brantley has written down in
the statement that you put
the gun in a wood pile,
he just got it wrong?
A Yes, sir, he did,
Q Because you wouldn't have said anything
like that?
A No, sir, I would not.
Page 569
Q If he has also written down in a
statement that Betty Wilson
gave you the gun when she came down to pick you up in
A No, sir, it would not.
Q And you have never said anything like that,
have you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q Because that just would not have happened
under any circumstance, would it?
A No, sir, I don't guess.
Q What?
A No, sir.
Q No. sir.
These women have just gotten
you in a lot of trouble,
that's been the story of your life, hasn't it?
A No, sir, it hasn't.
Q All of your four marriages, all of them are
running around on you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Yeah.
All of them are running around on you. And when you were interrogated on
May 26th, you were told at the start by Mr. Brantley that
Page 570
those women are going to let
you take the blame for all of it.
Remember him telling you that?
"I told Mr. White that he knew exactly what we were talking about
and he needed to tell us about it, because those women were going to let him
take the blame for all of it." And then you said, "Yes, he had family
problems and that women were the reason of where he was now." You have
never really liked women, have you?
A Yes, sir, I like women.
Q You remember Mr. Brantley telling you:
"I told him how women
could get a man in serious trouble." Do you remember that?
A You say do I remember Mr. Brantley making
that statement?
Q Yeah.
A No, sir, not really.
Q Mr. Fry didn't ask you anything about
what you did with your
clothes after the killing,
did he?
A No, sir, he didn't.
Q Well, what did you do with them? I want it
all to come out. What did you do?
A Like I told you earlier, the clothes that
Page 571
supposedly I had on, I
stuffed in that white bag with the black design on it, stuck it up under a
rock down in the woods
behind Mrs. Wilson's house.
Q With the rope in it?
A Yes, sir.
Q In that black and white bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you didn't take anything out of the
house?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And the only -- you didn't take anything?
A Let me rephrase that. Evidently I took
some clothes out of the
house, because I hid some clothes and I had different clothes on than what I
came to in
Q Well, did you take anything out of the
house?
A Evidently I did.
Q Not evidently --
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q So when you said on direct examination
that you had not taken anything out of the house, that was another lie, wasn't
it?
A Yes, sir, if you want to look at it that
Page 572
way
Q How else do you want me to look at it?
A Well, I mean, like the question was never
put directly to me, and everything was mentioned as of value.
Q Oh, that's what Mr. Fry said, of value?
A Well, that's what you said. I don't remember Mr. Fry asking me if I
took anything out of the house.
Q You don't remember Mr. Fry asking you if
you took anything out of the house at all after you left and you said,
"No, I did not"?'
A I'm not going to say he didn't, he
probably did, but I did not
take nothing. To me it
would mean something of value.
Q Well, would clothes be something of
value?
A To me not really.
Q Not really?
A No, sir.
Q So it would be all right to take clothes?
A Well, you know, it's thievery if you take
it out of somebody's
house. It's stealing, yes,
sir.
Page 573
Q Well, when did you get these clothes?
A That I don't know.
Q You
had a blackout on that?
A Yes, sir, evidently.
Q Well, what kind of clothes were they that
you got?
A When I got home I had on a pair of blue
jeans and a light blue shirt.
Q A pair of blue jeans and a light blue
shirt?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where
are those blue jeans?
A I have no idea, sir.
MR. COOK: Do you have those?
If I could have them and let's see if he
(Brief pause.)
Q They say they might be in another box. Tell
me about those blue jeans. Which room did you get them from?
A I
don't know, sir.
Q What part of the house, the basement, the
second floor or the third floor?
A I don't know what floor it was. All I know
is I was up there where the bedrooms was at.
Page 574
Q When did you come back to your senses after
you beat him to death and stabbed him and went into this blackout?
A Like the statement I made, I was in the
woods behind their house when I came back to realization of where I was at.
Q You were in the woods. What were you doing in the woods?
A I was squatted down behind some trees.
Q How long have you known that you went out
into the woods after the killing? You have known that all along, haven't you?
A I knew I was in the woods, yes, sir.
Q You have known that from May 26th, from
the date it happened; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you have repeatedly, repeatedly,
repeatedly lied about it in these seven statements, haven't you? Yes or no.
A Lied about what?
Q Being in the woods.
A No, sir, I haven't.
Q Do you deny that you lied about being in
the woods?
Page 575
A Yes, sir.
Q And you did not go in there to steal?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q That wasn't the reason that you went in
there at all?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q Look at your statement on May 27th, page
3. It's recorded and if you want to hear
it during the lunch hour, maybe they ought to give you a cassette
recorder. Page 3. Look at May 29th,
that's even better, page
6. May 29, page 6. You
are trying your best to tell
us the truth, aren't you?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q Because it's very important, isn't it? And
the last thing in the world that you would do would be to lie to us because it
doesn't mean a thing in the world to you, does it?
A What, to lie?
Q Yeah.
A Yes,
sir, it does. It means a lot.
Q But what I'm saying, it's important to
you?
A In which manner? It's important to me as
Page 576
a conscience man.
Q Your conscience, how long have you had this
conscience of which you refer to today? How long has it been with you or how
long has it been on a holiday?
A You will have to rephrase the question
where I can understand.
Q How long have you had this conscience?
A I have had a conscience all my life.
Q And it just sort of comes and goes?
A No, sir, it don't.
Q It doesn't. You have had it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you have always utilized it?
A I try.
Q You said on May 29th on this tape: to I don't think I was really going to kill
the man because I carried no weapons, and I think mainly
what I was going to do is
just get in the lady's house and ramble around and see if I could find some
money or something or another and leave, anyway.
And
basically that's what I was doing. I was going through their drawers and
stuff." Is that the
truth
or is that another lie?
Page 577
A Yes, sir, it's the truth.
Q So you were looking for money?
A Yes, sir.
Q And stuff?
And stuff?
A Yes.
Q And, as you said, and basically
A Yes, sir.
Q -- that's what you were doing?
A No, sir.
Q Isn't that what you said, and
basically --
A Yes, sir.
Q -- that's what I was doing?
A Yes, sir.
Basically, that's what I was doing.
Q When you said, "No, sir," you
misspoke?
A Yes, sir.
Q You really meant "Yes, sir"?
A I thought you were inferring to the whole
situation of the crime.
Q But you said, "And basically that's
what
I was doing," meaning
simply that you were looking for money and stuff?
A Yes, sir, according to the statement.
Page 578
Yes, sir.
Q Well, was that correct or is that another
lie?
A Well, it all depends on how you want to
look at it. My purpose being at the
house was to commit murder. That was my
purpose at the house .
Q How do you look at it? Not the purpose of
your being at the house. How do you
look at it?
Was what you have just said
on May 2nd --
A Yes, sir, that's what I was doing.
Q -- on May 29th, was that a lie?
A No., sir, it was not a lie, because I was
told to make it look like a burglary.
Q Well, nobody has told you that here,
though. You are telling the truth now,
though?
A Yes, sir, I'm trying my best to.
Q You are saying -- I'm talking about on
May 29th, you are telling
the truth, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you said, "I had no weapons, I
was
not going to kill the man,
mainly I was going to do is just get in the lady's house and ramble around
and see if I could find some
money or something or another and leave, anyway, and basically that is
Page 579
what I was doing." Is that the truth?
A That's what I was doing, yes, sir.
Q That's the truth, the statement you gave
here. And then you said, continued,
"I got
scared after you
were looking for money and stuff, I
got scared and I was ready to leave and that's when me and the man run in f ace
to f ace . Right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you said, "But I had no weapon
whatsoever"?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And it scared you, didn't it?
A Yes, sir, it did.
Q And he grabbed hold of you?
A Yes, sir, he did.
Q Because he didn't know who you were? He
figured
you were a burglar, a robber, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was a response that you would
expect?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you didn't try to kill him; he grabbed
you first, didn't he?
Page 580
A Yes. sir.
Q He surprised you?
A Yes, sir.
Q At being in the house; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you didn't mean to kill him?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And you never would have laid a hand on
him if he hadn't grabbed you?
A I'm
not going to say that.
Q Well, tell me what --
A I imagine I would have.
Q Imagine you would have. And you don't know
what you hit him with?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And you don't know what you stabbed him
with? In fact, you don't even know that
you stabbed him?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And that's the time that you said that
you just kind of went into a
blackout stage?
A Yes, sir.
MR.
COOK: If Your Honor please, I'm
going to go to another
subject. It's about five
Page 581
until
THE COURT: We are going to quit about
MR. COOK: Yes, sir.
THE
COURT: -- work it out to about
12:00, we will quit at that
time.
MR.
COOK: Thank you.
Q Let me ask you this before I get into
another complex subject: How often do
you have these blackouts? Can you --
A Well --
Q Go ahead.
A Well, my understanding, they occur when
I'm drinking or doing drugs or getting myself heavily hyped up on drugs and
stuff or alcohol.
Q If you get ready to have one while this
trial is in session here, could you let us know?
A You cannot tell when you are going into a
blackout stage.
Q All right.
So you never know when you
are going to have one or
not?
A Basically, according to my alcohol abuse
Page 582
counselors in the treatments
that I have got for my alcohol and drug abuse, it is when I get myself so hyped
up or I have had so much drugs or so much alcohol that it brings on a blackout
spell.
Q You are pretty dangerous -- until you
get hyped up, until you get on drugs, drugs and liquor together, you wouldn't
harm a flea, would you? You're just sort of a peaceable fellow?
A I'm that way all the time.
Q You are that way all the time. You are rea11y sort of a
coward, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You are sort of a coward?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when you get liquored up and doped
up you get mean?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And violent, don't you?
A No, sir.
Q And that doesn't happen?
A No, sir.
Q That doesn't happen at all?
A No, sir.
Q Well, where were you when you stabbed
the
Page 583
Marine with a fork? Do you
remember that, or did you have a blackout?
A I don't remember nothing about it. I was told about it and I was in
Q And you stabbed him in the hospital?
A No, sir.
Q Where were you when you pulled the M16 on
someone in your outfit? Did somebody tell you
about that?
A Yes, sir, they did.
Q Yeah.
And you had a blackout then,
didn't you?
A They say I went into a post-traumatic
stress syndrome.
Q Yeah.
But you don't have any Service- connected disability at all, do you?
A No, sir, I don't. No, sir.
Q And you don't remember stabbing the
Marine with a fork or pulling the M16 on
--
A No, sir, I do not.
Q -- anyone, do you?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q How were you dressed when you went to Dr.
Page 584
A I had on a pair of blue jeans and a long-
sleeved flannel shirt.
Q You don't know what happened to that white
and black bag, do you?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q You don't know how a white and black bag
could turn into a white and red bag, do you?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q Now, I'll ask you this before the lunch
hour: You are not color blind now, are
you?
A No, sir, I'm not.
Q You can tell red from black and black
from white?
A Yes, sir.
Q On the 20th or 21st and 22nd, did you
have a beard?
A Did I have a beard?
Q Yeah.
A No, sir.
Q Did you have a beard when you -- how long had you been without a beard?
A I don't know exactly how long I had been
without a beard, because, I mean, when I am on the
Page 585
streets I'll take a notion
and I'll grow a beard, then I 111 get a notion and I 1 11 shave it off .I
have had a beard several
different times in my
1ifetime.
Q Well, you went by the
A Around the 15th or 16th, I think.
Q And the killing was on the 22nd?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you have a beard during that period
of time?
A I think so.
Q What period of time?
A I had one during May, I think. I don't know
exactly when I shaved it off, I really don't.
Q Well , did you have a beard when you came
up here on the 21st?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Did you have a beard when you went to the
state park on the 15th or 16th?
A I think so.
I'm not quite for sure, but I think I did have a beard when I went up
there.
Q But you don't know one way or the other?
A No, sir, I really don't.
Page 586
Q You have no recollection on that at all?
A No, sir.
Q You said -- you said to Mr. Fry that no
drawers were turned upside down in the house.
You were going through the drawers to see if you could find some money,
weren't you?
A Yes , sir .
Q What would you have done if you had found
$1,000 or $500?
A I would have probably took the money and
went ahead and aborted what I was there for, and again, I don't know.
Q Yeah.
You just don't know. What would
you have done if you had found some drugs? This was a doctor's house. You weren't looking for any drugs, of course,
though, were you?
A No, sir, I wasn't.
Q And you didn't -- definitely didn't go into
the house to steal any drugs or money?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q And the gun you definitely did not
remove?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q From the house; is that right?
Page 587
A Yes, sir.
Q And you were up there -- you were up there,
I believe you said, on a Thursday afternoon on the 21st, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you drove around, you said, two or
three times in your own truck?
A Yes, sir.
Q On
A Yes, sir.
Q Whatever it was, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q What time of the day was it that you went
up? Were you drunk then?
A I had been drinking but I wasn't drunk.
Q Were you doping?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q What were you doping with?
A I was taking Darvocet,
taking Lithium,
and taking what we call fast
ones, which is across- the-counter speed.
Q Taking Lithium, Darvocets,
and what else? A And them little fast
ones I was telling
you about. We call them fast ones. It is little
Page 588
old caffeine tablets you can
buy across the counter at grocery convenience stores.
Q What about -- what are white crosses?
A That's what they call them on the street,
is white crosses.
Q You were pretty liquored up, weren't you?
A I was on my way. I wasn't that liquored
up yet.
Q You were on your way. How long does it take you to get there when
you are on your way? How much do you need?
A Well, usually when I'm drinking, before I stopped
drinking, if I'm drinking, to get me
started was a half a case,
that is what I bought
just to get started.
Q How many Lithiums?
A My Lithium tablet, I take them four times
a
day.
Q And you were taking it four times a day
then?
A Yes, sir. Sometimes I may take two at a
time.
Q But you got up there -- you drove up
there
two or three times to
Page 589
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q In
your truck and just rod around?
A Yes,
sir.
Q And
right in front of the house and
turned around.
It is sort of a cul-de-sac there. When you get to her house or their
house, you have got to turn around, haven't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q An you did that two or three times?
A Yes, sir.
Q On Thursday?
A Yes, sir.
Q Before the incident on the 22nd?
A Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Well, we will recess for
lunch.
MR. COOK: Thank you,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, please go into the
jury room.
(Brief pause.)
THE COURT: Court is in recess until
(Whereupon, proceedings were
in recess at
Page 590
following occurred:)
THE COURT: Mr. Cook, are you ready?
MR. COOK: Yes, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Fry?
MR. FRY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Okay, bring the jury out. (Whereupon, the
jury was placed in the
jury box, and the witness,
James Dennison White, resumed the stand; at which time the following occurred:)
CONTINUATION
OF CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. COOK:
Q Mr. White, you have testified earlier on
direct examination, as I recall, that on
Thursday afternoon on the 21st, before the murder on the
22nd, that you rode up to
or two or three times in
your truck?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And at one time you jogged up there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q I thought that you had -- I didn't know
you were a jogger. I thought you had a bad limp --
A I do.
Page 591
Q -- and difficulty. That you got hurt on the job twice and had
gotten substantial monies for workers compensation.
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you are still a jogger?
A No, sir, I am not.
Q But you were just jogging that day?
A I appeared to be jogging.
Q were you jogging or were you not? Either
you were jogging or not jogging.
A No, sir.
Q were you running?
A No, sir, I wasn't.
Q You were walking?
A At a fast pace, yes, sir.
Q But you were not jogging?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q So when you said you were jogging, that was
a mistake?
A I said it appeared -- that I was trying
to
appear as a jogger.
Q How were you dressed?
Page 592
A I had on a pair of blue jeans and I had on
a long-sleeved blue flannel shirt.
Q A long-sleeved blue flannel shirt in May?
A Yes, sir.
Q And I believe you said, if I understood you
correctly, on one of these occasions that Mrs. Wilson came out and gave you a
glass of water?
A I said she was leaving. I was at the end of
Q She stopped and handed you a glass of
water. And where were you when she stopped and handed you a glass of water?
A At the end of
Q Out on the street?
A I was sitting on the street, yes, sir.
Q You were doing what?
A I was sitting on the curb of the street.
Q You were sitting on the curb of the
street. And she just drives by in broad daylight
and hands you a glass of
water?
A She had seen me one time. And when she went
to her home she was in a different vehicle.
Page 593
And when she left, she came
back in the truck and
she handed me a glass of
water.
Q And she came back
in what?
A She was in the
truck when she came back.
Q She handed you a glass of water?
A Yes, sir, she
did.
Q How many houses are around there?
A Quite a few.
Q What kind of truck was she in?
A A little blue
Ford pickup truck.
Q She just stopped and handed you a glass
of water because it was a
hot day, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q And you
appreciated that, of course?
A Yes, sir.
Q Anyone else there
other than you --
A No, sir.
Q -- and Mrs. Wilson? What was the weather
that day?
A It was nice and warm.
Q Sun was shining?
A Yes, sir.
Q Nothing to obscure anyone's vision at all?
Page 594
A As
far as I know.
Q About what time
of day was that?
A I couldn't tell you exactly what time.
Sometime in the afternoon.
Q You don't have to tell me exactly.
A Sometime in the afternoon.
Q Well, about what time, give me your best
estimate.
A I’11 say somewhere around
Q What did you do with the glass, just lay
it down on the side of the road or take it back down to the house and put it in
the kitchen cabinet?
A I carried it back and put it in my truck,
and eventually it wound up in my home.
Q And it wound up in your home?
A Yes, sir, in my mobile home. Yes. sir.
Q Have you told anybody about this?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q When did you tell this for the first
time, about this glass of
water?
A I can't remember exactly when I told.
Q I have looked over all seven of your
statements, beginning with May the 26th and
Page 595
concluding on July 28th, and
I state to you that there is nothing in there about anything that you have just
related concerning a glass of water.
A Well, I made the statement.
Q Well, I know you did, but I want to know
when you told Mr. Brantley and the officers that you made the statement.
A Like I said, I can't remember the exact
day, what day I did give the statement.
Q I guess it would have been after July 28th,
then, wouldn't it?
A What's July 28th got to do with it, sir?
Q That's the last statement that we have
that you gave.
A It was before that, yes, sir.
Q It was before that?
A Probably, yes, sir.
Q Well, did you give them that glass?
A No, sir.
Q Oh, you didn't give them that glass. Well,
that glass would have had Mrs. Wilson's fingerprints on it, wouldn't it?
A After I washed it, no, sir, I doubt it.
Q Oh, you washed it? You took it home and
Page 596
washed
it? And they have never asked for the glass? A They asked me to describe it. I tried
the best I could.
Q You had it there in the house, didn't
you?
A I was arrested, sir, on my job.
Q I said the glass was in your house,
wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And they never asked for it?
A They never asked me for it, no, sir.
Q How did you describe it?
A As a white cup with red lettering on it.
Q A white cup?
A Yes, sir.
Q What kind of lettering?
A Just red lettering.
Q Well, what does it say?
A I have no idea. I can't remember.
Q Does it say Betty Wilson?
A No,
sir, it didn't have Betty Wilson's name on it. No, sir.
Q What did it have on it?
A Like I say, sir, I don't know exactly
Page 597
what the writing was on
it. I can just tell you it was red
lettering.
Q And they didn't want that cup? Was it a
cup or a glass?
A It was a glass, plastic glass like you
buy at a fast food
restaurant or something, or they give away sometimes on special deals.
Q And they didn't ask for that?
A They didn't ask me for it.
Q And you put it in your truck and took it
home?
A Yes, sir.
Q You also said that the reason you did not
take the gun with you on this hit -- you described it as a hit, I believe, in
your testimony, haven't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q That the reason you did not take the gun
with you is because that guns make a lot of racket and you got gun-shy in
A I said I was a little gun-shy, yes, sir.
Q Is that the reason you didn't take the
gun with you?
A Yes, sir.
Page 598
Q Did you tell Micky
Brantley that the reason you didn’t take the gun with you was that you were
afraid you would get caught with it in the truck?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Which one was correct?
A Both of them is correct.
Q Did you tell Mr. Brantley you were gun-
shy?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Did you know there is nothing in any of
your statements about anything like that?
A Yes, sir, I imagine so.
Q Were you afraid to get the marijuana- out
of your truck? You had marijuana in your truck,
didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And you had a sack full of it at home,
didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And you were never charged with any of
that, were you?
A As of right now, no, sir, I have not.
Q That's what I'm saying, right now.
Page 599
A No, sir.
Q You had a sack full of marijuana and you
had a sack full of seeds or were those okra seeds?
A It was probably marijuana seeds.
Q Were you doing any farming out there?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q What were you doing with the seeds?
A Usually I separate them from the reefer
to where I smoke the joint
there is no seeds in
there popping in my face.
Q You just kept them for the fun of it?
A No, sir.
I just hadn't gotten --
disposed of them yet.
Q You just hadn't gotten to dispose of them
yet. You have dealt in drugs, haven't
you?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q Dealt in all sorts of drugs, haven't you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q You have dealt in marijuana?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q You have dealt in amphetamines?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q You sold amphetamines?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Page 600
Q Got convicted for selling amphetamines?
A Yes, sir
I have.
Q And then you were supposed to report back
to the court to be sentenced?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q Did you report back?
A No, sir.
Q You ran?
A Yes, sir.
I jumped bond.
Q Like cowards generally do?
A If that's what you want to call it.
Q Well, what would you call it?
A I call it I just got scared and I left.
Q Just got scared and you left. And where did
you go?
A I just went -- I think the first place I
wound up was Orlando, Florida.
Q Where else did you go after that?
A I wound up all over
Q You wound up out of
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q You went to
A Well, in fact, I went all the way to
Page 601
Q What were you
doing?
A Hitchhiking.
Q How long were you gone?
A From
Q Yes.
A I don't know. Probably six, seven, eight months.
Q Six, seven, or eight months. What were you
doing during that period?
A Just hitchhiking, staying in rescue
missions, staying in Salvation Armies, getting odd jobs at Manpower and stuff
like that.
Q How many children did you have then?
A At that particular tine?
Q Yes.
A I had one.
Q Who was supporting your child?
A I guess her mother was.
Q You didn't care, though, did you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q You made no contact?
A I couldn't.
Q You made no contact?
Page 602
A I couldn't.
Q Whether you could or not, my question
is --
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q All right.
You made no contact with your wife or your kid?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q You didn't know whether they were dead or
alive?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And you were hitchhiking, bumming all
over the country?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you didn't come back to
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Something happened to you in
A Yes, sir, it did.
Q You got in a little snap there, didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q In fact, you got stopped for robbery,
didn't you?
Page 603
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q Kidnapping?
A No, sir.
Q Do you deny that?
A Well, I won't deny the fact I wasn't picked
up for it, but I was never charged with it.
Q But it wasn't your fault?
A No, sir, it wasn't.
Q You were with somebody else?
A Yes, I was.
Q And it was their fault, wasn't it?
A From my understanding, the way it was
told to me, yes, sir.
Q It was their fault?
A From my understanding.
Q Yeah.
And who was the fellow you were with?
A Some guy named Steve that I started
hitchhiking with.
Q Where did you meet him?
A On the side of the road hitchhiking.
Q In fact, you were picked up hitchhiking
either in
A I can't remember where the boy and girl
Page 604
picked us up at, but, yes,
sir, somewhere around there.
Q Well, it certainly wasn't in
was it?
A No, sir, it wasn't.
Q It was in the far west, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q And they were good enough to take you
to pick both of you up?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you put the man out of the car,
didn't you? You put the man
out --
A No,
sir.
Q Just a minute. You took the man out of
the car and left with the
woman, didn't you? Answer that yes or no.
A No, sir.
Q You deny that?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q And that was just another mistake in your
life, wasn't it? You just got mixed up with the wrong crowd?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's the truth, too, isn't it?
Page 605
A Yes, Sir.
Q Now, let's go, if we may, back to your
service. You said you didn't
know your commanding officer, your company commander?
A That's right.
Q The name that I read to you did not mean
anything?
A No, Sir, it didn't.
Q You have no recollection of Captain Barry
L. Brandon, who was your commanding officer,
Company E, fourth battalion,
31st infantry?
A No, Sir, I do not.
Q What company were you in?
A I was with the Echo Squad, platoon.
Q Company E?
A Yes, Sir.
Q Fourth battalion?
A No, Sir.
Q 31st Infantry?
A No, Sir.
MR.
COOK: identify that, please.
(Brief
pause.)
Q And I hand you what has been marked
MR.
COOK: May I approach the witness,
Page 606
Your Honor?
THE COURT: Sure.
Q -- Defendant's Exhibit No. 13. Is that
your signature there?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Look over that document, if you will.
Familiarize yourself with it and then let me ask
you a few questions about
it.
(Brief pause.)
Q You were discharged for the
"intentional shirking of your duties and by behavior rendering him
repeatedly subject to punitive action. Your behavior was not due to an
incapacity to become a satisfactory soldier within the meaning of
unfitness. There appears to be no
grounds for
other disposition of this
soldier." Are they talking about
you?
A Evidently, sir.
Q Yeah.
Is anything mysterious about that? Do you remember that?
A I don't completely understand all of that
there.
Q Yeah.
You don't remember this, do you?
A No, I don't understand it.
Page 607
Q You don't understand it?
A Right.
Q And it was never explained to you?
A No, sir.
Q When you got this letter here, which is
addressed to you, dated
You may exercise any or all
of these rights in writing. A lawyer, within the meaning of Article 27B1,
Uniform Code of Military Justice, will be available to you for
consultation." You understood that,
didn't you?
A I never received that letter.
Page 608
Q You never received that letter. It's addressed to you, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Well, let me see.
Q Well, let's look at it and see. Is that addressed to you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And it's signed by a captain that you
don't know?
A Right.
Q And then right after that letter, it says
here -- that you signed -- "I have been advised by counsel of the basis
for contemplated action to accomplish my separation for unsuitability under
AR635-212, I waive consideration of my case by a board of officers-" You initialed that, didn't
you?
A Yes, sir, it's my initials.
Q "I waive personal appearance before a
board of officers, I waive statements in my own behalf, I waive representation
by appointed
counsel. I understand that I may expect to
encounter substantial prejudice in
civilian life," etc. You signed that, didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Page 609
Q You understood that, didn't you?
A At the present time I say, no, sir.
Q You didn't understand it?
A No, sir.
Q So you just didn't know what had happened to
you, did you?
A Basically, no, sir. I was under psychiatric treatment.
Q And is that after you had one of your
blackouts?
A They say I blacked out, sir.
Q Say you blacked out?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who told you you
blacked out?
A A Capt. Saxon, the
medical doctor who was taking care of me.
Q Let's go to the time after you had
bludgeoned Dr. Wilson to death and stabbed him several times. Then I believe you said -- what did you do
after you hit him with the ball bat, then cut him? What was the next thing you
did?
A I
don't remember doing neither one of the things, but I do remember leaving the
house.
Q Do you remember doing anything in the
Page 610
house?
A No, sir.
Q Just a minute. Do you remember doing
anything in the house other than beating him to death or stabbing him?
A I remember going in the house.
Q So as you sit here today, you don't
remember going in the house?
A I said I remember going in the house.
Q Is that all you remember?
A No, sir. I remember going through some
drawers and looking for valuables.
Q Why were you looking for valuables?
A Like the statement said and I said
before, I was looking for money or
things of value.
Q That you could steal?
A I guess I would have took them.
Q Yeah. You remember that?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you remember running into the doctor?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, you had this rope with you, didn't
you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 611
Q Rope.
Is that a rope or a cord? What do you call that?
A I guess you call it a rope or cord,
either one.
Q You
had that cord with you. Did you try to do anything with the cord?
A No, sir. I did not.
Q You never would have touched him if he
hadn’t surprised you, would you?
A That would be hard to answer, sir.
Q Well, you ought to know.
A No, sir, I don't at that present time. I
don’t
know what I would have done.
Q So you don't know what you would have done?
A That’s what I’m saying.
Q Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what did you do -- what do you remember
doing after you met him and cut him?
A The next thing I remember is being
outside
in the woods.
Q Outside in the woods. You don't remember any clothes, you don't
remember getting any clothes
Page 612
out of the house?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Well, you don't know that you did, then, do
you?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q So you remember being out in the woods?
A Yes , sir.
Q And when you were out in the woods,
that's the first thing you remember?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where were you out in the woods?
A
All I can tell you is I was in the woods, squatted down behind some
trees.
Q Squatted down behind some trees. And when
did you start to remember when you were - squatted down in the woods? Did you
have anything in your hands?
A I had the bag.
Q You had what bag?
A The white and black bag I have told you
about.
Q The white and black bag you told me about.
And how big was the bag?
A Just a small shopping bag.
Page 613
Q Well, let me hand you the one that is not
that bag that you had, but the Kmart bag.
Was it smaller than this Kmart bag? And this is Defendant's Exhibit No.
11. Was it larger or smaller than
Defendant's Exhibit no. 11?
A If my recollection is right, it's a
little bit larger than that
one.
Q A little bit larger than Defendant's
Exhibit 11. And what did you have in
the bag?
A There was some clothes in the bag.
Q So there were clothes in the bag. Well,
who put the clothes in the bag?
A Evidently, I did.
Q So your story is that you came to
yourself out in the woods
and you had some clothes in the bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, tell me what clothes you had in the
bag or tell the jury what clothes you had in the
bag. You are awake now and you are not in a
blackout?
A Evidently they were my clothes.
Q Oh, you had your clothes in the bag?
A Yes, sir.
Page 614
Q And I guess you were sitting out there.
Were you naked or have your drawers on?
A I had clothes on.
Q So you had clothes on. You were sitting out in the woods with clothes on, and you don't
remember putting them on?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And you don't remember taking the other
ones off?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And that's your story, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q And you are going to stick with it,
aren't you?
A Yes, sir, I am.
Q And that's always been your story, hasn't
it?
A Yes, sir, it has.
Q That's what you told Mr. Brantley from
the
beginning, and Mr. Fry and all of the officers
in
this case, isn't it?
A Told Mr. Brantley, yes, sir.
Q Don't you know that's a lie, that that's
not what you told him? Don't you know that's not
Page 615
true?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Look at your statement on May 26th, page
13.
(Brief pause.)
Q Where you said, "When he got out back
by the pool, he then ran through the woods to the highway and then walked back
to Parkway City Mall and got his truck and went back to
A Yes, sir, evidently it was.
Q Well, was it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You
didn't have any problem with it did you?
A At the present time I give these
statements, like I was telling you, I can't remember all of them.
Q May 27th, look at May 27th, page 4, if you
would like. You were asked on a tape-
recording, "How did you leave the house?" And you replied, "Down through the
woods and down on the main road, I just left walking. All I knew is I wanted to get away." Is that what happened?
Page 616
A That's what I said, yes, sir.
Q I didn't ask you if that was what you said,
I asked you if that was what happened.
A Could you clarify by what you mean by is
that what happened?
Q Did you go down through the woods and
down onto the main road?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q That was a lie, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you didn't have any problem with
that, about lying about it,
did you? What was the use of lying about it? You had already told them that you
had killed a man. What was the use of
lying about that? What
difference did it make to you then, other than just lying for the sake of
lying?
A Which question do you want me to answer
first, the first one or last one?
Q Take your pick.
A At the present time that some of these
statements were made, my head was still kind of foggy from the drugs and
alcohol that I had started using.
Page 617
Q I see.
When did your head get unfogged?
A I guess right about at the time that I
started telling the truth about the whole situation.
Q When did you start telling the truth?
A I can't remember exactly what date it
was, what day it was that I
started.
Q Well, let's go to May 29th. You have got
a lawyer, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you said then -- if you want to look
at it, it's a tape recording
May 29, page 5, if you want to look at it.
You want to look at it?
(Brief
pause.)
Q You
said, "I went back downstairs.
At that time Ms. Wilson pulled up in her car, which was a black BMW, I
got in the back seat, she carried me down to
A No, sir. When she pulled up I was
outside
the house already.
Q So it didn't happen that way?
A No. sir.
Q So on May 29th, when you got your lawyer,
Mr. Miller there, you still lied?
Page 618
A No, sir.
Q Oh, that wasn't a lie?
A I don't remember making that statement
there like that.
Q Well, don't you know it's tape-recorded?
You want to hear it?
A Yes, sir, I hear you. Yes, sir.
Q If you said that and it appears on that record, it's a lie, isn't it?
A If you say so.
Q It's not a matter of me saying so. That would be improper for me to say so.
It's a lie?
A Like I told you, the statement I made
was, when I came back to my
senses I was in the
woods. I came back up to the house, Mrs. Wilson
pulled up, I got in the car and I left.
Q My question is, this statement was a lie?
A Evidently.
Q And then we go over again to page 8 of the
statement, and you were asked these questions:
After the struggle and when
you left the house,
which way did you exit
out?" And you replied, "I exited out the back door to the
garage." Is that right?
Page 619
A Yes, sir.
Q I thought you said a moment ago that you
didn't remember even leaving the house, that you
didn’t remember anything
until you were squatting down out in the woods?
A I just presume I left the way I came in,
guess, because I don't know nothing about the
house .
Q And after you exited the back door from the
garage, Mr. Brantley said, "And where was she at?" The answer was, "She was coming down the
driveway." That was false, wasn't it, because you were out in the woods?
A It's worded wrong, yes, sir.
Q Worded wrong?
A Yes, sir.
Q It's false, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q He also asked you then, "Was she back
into the garage? Did she back into the garage?" And you said, "Yes,
sir.” Did she?
A No, sir.
Q And that's a lie?
A Yes, sir.
Page 620
Q Just a bald-faced lie, isn't it?
A Well, no.
Q Okay, that's all right. And the next question was, "And you got
in at that tine in the back seat?" And you said, "I got in and covered
up." But it didn't
happen that way, did it, because you
were out in the woods , isn't that right?
A No, sir.
Q You were not out in the woods?
A I was in the woods.
Q As I understand it, you were in the woods
and then came back?
A Yes, sir.
Q Out of the woods?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then she just happened to drive up?
A Yes, sir.
Q You didn't know she was coming?
A No, sir, I didn't.
Q And you just jumped in the back seat and
said, "Get me out of here"?
A "Take me to my truck."
Q "Take me to my truck.” And that’s the
way
it happened, right?
Page 621
A That's the way I said it happened.
Q And when was it that you put -- what did
you put in this white and black bag?
A I told you it was clothes
Q What else?
A That rope was in there, the cord, and a
pair of surgical gloves, to my knowledge.
Q You remember that vividly, you remember
the white and black bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q Let me hand you what I will ask the
reporter to identify as two defendant's exhibits.
(Brief
pause.)
Q I'm going to hand you two exhibits, 14
and 15, which I state to you
have been turned over
to me by the District
Attorney and which represents or purports to represent a photograph of a
plastic bag that was found under a rock at the neighbor's house immediately
adjacent to the home of Dr. and Mrs. Wilson, and which was found on July 28th
after you and your lawyer made a disclosure.
Look at that bag and tell us what color it is.
A It's white with red on it.
Q And the bag that you put the clothing in,
Page 622
it was a white and black
bag?
A That's what I said, yes, sir.
Q And if anything was under this rock in a
white and red bag, there is something fishy about
it, isn't there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Yes. Have you --
MR. COOK: I offer in evidence
Defendant's Exhibit 14 and
15 and Defendant's
Exhibit 13, if it please,
Your Honor.
THE
COURT: All three are admitted.
Q Have you discussed with Mr. Fry or Mr.
Brantley the fact that you put a white bag -- white and black bag under the
rock and they found a white and red bag?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q Well, there must be -- would you talk to
them about it later on this afternoon?
That's all right. Do you remember
-- do you remember that Mr. Brantley asked you why you first stated that after
you had assaulted Mr. Wilson, that you stated that you left on foot and ran
through the woods, and then later you said no, that's not the way it happened,
that Mrs. Wilson came back to pick you up? And that
Page 623
you told him you just lied,
you just told a lie about it and you lied all the time?
A No, sir.
Q And that --
A All the statement is not true, no, sir.
Q What?
A I said all that statement is not true.
Q All of what statement?
A As far as what you just said.
Q Well, what part of it is true? Just
break it down, if you will.
A About leaving through the woods and
stuff, that was a lie, but
as far as coming back to the house and Mrs. Wilson pulling up and me getting in
the car and telling her to carry me back to my truck, is not a lie.
Q What makes you lie about it?
A I'm not lying about it.
Q What made you lie then, were you just
foggy?
A I was trying my best not to get caught, I
guess.
Q Do you remember on the 4th of June that
you gave another statement on tape recording about
Page 624
the same situation that we
are talking about, and
you were asked the question,
"Let's go back to the time Mr. Wilson was killed and you were leaving the
house, okay?" And you said, "Yes, sir.” The question
was, "Did she have a time that she was
going to come back and pick
you up?" And you said, "No, sir, I think that was just by accident
that she showed up that time, and I got ready to leave I just told her to carry
me back to the truck, and she didn't want to do that because she said it was
too crowded, it was the busy part of the day." Is that what happened?
A
I guess, sir.
Q Well, I'm not asking you what you
guess. Did that happen?
A Well, now, everything that happened
that day I can't remember, because, like I have stated,
I
was on drugs and alcohol.
Q Were you still in that blackout stage
--
A Well --
Q -- partially?
A I was in and out, I'll put it that way.
Q Then on July 28th you have a meeting,
you and your lawyer have a meeting with the District
Page 625
Attorney and Mr. Brantley,
right, over two months after the killing.
And you tell him that you have hid your clothes under a rock in the
wooded area down from the pool. And
after hiding your clothes, you return to the garage and that was when Mrs.
Wilson picked you up?
A That's what I have stated all along.
Q Well, that was the first time that you had
told anyone that you had hid your clothes under a rock?
A Yes, sir.
Q It took you two months to get unfogged before that came to you, didn't it?
A Basically, yes, sir.
Q And it just came to you that -- what did
they tell you, what did Mr. Brantley tell you -- he stayed pretty much in close
contact with you -- about him going down there and finding it under the rock?
They said they found it, didn't they?
A I heard that they found it, but I can't
remember if Mr. Brantley is the one that told me or my attorney told me.
Q Anybody ever ask you about it and show you
any of these things after they found it?
Page 626
A No. sir.
Q Pair of blue jeans, have you ever seen those
blue
jeans
before?
A They look like the ones I had on when I, returned
to my house after the day of the crime.
Q Sometime would you try to try these on
and see if anything on them
that looks like it?
A They probably wouldn't fit me now because I
have picked up about 40 pounds since I have been
in jail.
Q About 40 pounds?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you are going to stick with that story,
too, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q What about the shirt that you had on,
that you obviously,
according to you, took out of the
A I told them it was in my house.
Q And describe it?
A It's a light blue shirt, short-sleeve, it's
got a pocket on it.
MR.
COOK: Do we have that?
Page 627
A It’s got a wreath-like thing on the front
pocket.
Q Anybody ever showed you that shirt?
A No, sir, they have not.
Q Has anyone, after they took the clothing
out of your house, ever said, "Mr. White, is this the shirt that you had
on?"
A No, sir.
Q When you talked with -- when you talked
to Mrs. Wilson, you said she
told you about the bedroom, about the
bedroom arrangement up there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Told
you where his bedroom was?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Told
you where her bedroom was?
A No, sir.
Q Didn't tell you where hers was?
A No, sir, she didn't.
Q Never did?
A To my recollection, no, sir.
Q You have also told about the clothes that
you wore, haven't you, being the clothes -- the checkered shirt and pair of blue jeans?
A Yes, sir.
Page 628
Q That's always been the case, hasn't it?
A Basically, yes, sir.
Q The plaid shirt?
MR.
COOK: And could I -- I don't want to
rummage around in your box. Could I
have the plaid shirt?
(Brief pause.)
Q But you told them about that, there never
was any secret about the fact you had a plaid shirt on?
A No, sir, as far as I know.
Q You weren't so fogged up that you forgot
that, right?
A Sir?
Q I said you always remembered that you
had -- does that look like
the shirt?
A Yes, sir.
Q That looks like it there. You always
remembered -- that's got a collar on it, hasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you always remembered that that's the
shirt that you had on?
A Looks like the one, yes, sir.
Q Never been any question about that, has
Page 629
there? What?-
A I said it looks
like the one.
Q Remember on May the 26th -- you know what a
T-shirt is, don't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q What is a T-shirt?
A A T-shirt is a
shirt with no sleeves in it, like a tank top, as we call it.
Q What about a collar?
A No. sir, it's got no collar.
Q May the 26th, the report says that -- or
Mr. Brantley: "I asked Mr. White
if he remembered what clothes he was wearing the day of the murder. Mr. White
said he was wearing blue jeans and some kind of a T-shirt with either his boots
or T-shoes." Did you make that
statement?
A I can't remember.
Q If you said that would it have been a
lie?
A If I said I had on just a T-shirt, yes,
sir.
Q Why would you want to lie about it?
A Well, I didn't.
Q Just still in a fog, I guess, weren't
Page 630
you?
A No, sir.
Q Oh, you were not in a fog?
A I just don't wear a T-shirt by itself
very much.
Q But that's what you said, though, look at
page 13 of the report on May 26th and see if that's not exactly what you said.
A There is no page 13 for May 26th -- yeah,
there is, excuse me. I was looking at
the wrong number. Page 13.
Q Down at the bottom. Let me show you
where
it is to where we will save time.
A I found it.
Q You got it?
A Yes, sir.
Q "I asked Mr. White if he remembered
what clothes he was wearing the day of the murder. Mr. White said he was wearing blue jeans
and some kind of a T-shirt with either his boots or T-shoes.”
That was false, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q But you didn't mean anything by it, though,
did you? You weren't trying to fool
Page 631
anybody, were you?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q You were trying your best to tell the
truth, weren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q In fact, the day that you were arrested
they went to your house with you, didn't
they?
A Wasn't the day I was arrested, no, sir.
Q The next day?
A Early in the morning, yes, sir.
Q or early in the morning the next morning.
Now, what did they get at your house?
A They got the boots, the tennis shoes.
Q Did they get any clothes?
A I can't remember if they picked up any
clothes or not.
Q Don't you know that they didn't?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q You were with them, weren't you?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you gave them a free rein to get
anything that they wanted?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, they certainly wanted to know what
Page 632
clothes you had on the night
of the murder, didn't they?
A Well , I told them the clothes had
probably already been washed.
Q But that was a lie, you had hid them under
the rock, according to you?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you had already confessed to the
murder; right?
In
a roundabout way, I guess you could say, yes, sir.
Q Well, you had said you had killed him,
didn't you?
A Not completely.
Q Not completely, that he wasn't dead when
you left?
A No, sir.
Q That's what you said, wasn't it?
A No, sir.
Q Well, what did you say?
A I
admitted to being involved with the crime,
yes, sir, I did.
Q So you had nothing to hide at that time
about what you were wearing, you told them you were
Page 633
in the house?,
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q But you lied to them about what you had
on?
A Well , I guess I presumed they were
talking about what I had on
when I returned home.
Q You thought that's what it was?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, let's go to May 29th, your
statement, your taped statement on May 29th on page 23, if
you want to follow me. You were asked
this question -- and it's on tape:
"What did you do with the clothes you had on the night of the
murder?" Answer, "They went home with me and I guess I washed
them."
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, what do you think they were talking
about?
A The clothes I had on the night the crime
was committed.
Q Where were those clothes?
A In the woods up under the rock.
Q And you lied about it?
A Well, yes, sir, I guess you could say I
Page 634
did.
Q Well, would you say you did?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Just a bald-face
lie?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that didn't bother you, did it? You
slept well that night, didn't you?
A I haven't slept well at all.
Q If you didn't sleep well, it wasn't on
account of your conscience bothering you about that lie, was it?
A It's the whole situation.
Q You said there was no blood -- you told
these officers repeatedly, did you not, that there was no blood on any of your
clothes?
A That if I could remember.
Q That there was no blood on your shoes?
A That I could remember.
Q No blood on your shirt, no blood on your
pants. Why would you want to get rid of
them?
A That is something I can't answer.
Q It's sort of a crazy thing, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q That's what happens to you when you black
Page 635
out, isn't it?-
A Yes, sir.
Q You just do all these crazy things?
A Yes, sir.
Q Because it doesn't make a-lick of sense,
does it?
A I guess.
Q Not a bit of sense. Well, wasn't any reason to get rid of your
clothes, was there?
A That I don't know.
Q What?
A I said that I don't know.
Q Well, you don't know of any reason?
A No, sir.
Q Nobody told you to get rid of them?
A No, sir.
Q Nobody told you to get rid of them. Why,
don't you know that you told Mr. Brantley -- don't you know that you told Mr.
Brantley and it's
written down in a document
that I have, that Betty Wilson told you to get rid of your clothes?
A Yes, sir, I know that.
Q Oh, you just remembered that?
A No, sir, I did not.
Page 636
Q You just remembered that just then?
A No. sir.
Q What do you mean "no, sir"?
A Simply for the fact you asked me if
anybody told me to get rid of my clothes at that time, no. But it had been discussed before the crime
came down that I should take the clothes and get rid of them, which Mrs. Wilson suggested that.
Q I see. So that is the way it happened,
Mrs. Wilson told you to get rid of them?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's the reason, I guess, you
really did it, isn't it?
A Basically the reason why I done it that
day, I don't know.
Q You really don't know?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And then when you remembered on July
28th, when you remembered
over two months after the killing, that the clothes were under a rock in a
white and black bag, you were even able to describe the blue jeans with
absolute particularity, weren't you?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Page 637
Q You were able to describe them as being
blue jeans with a gold-type thread trim on the back pockets and down the side
of the legs, and you were wearing a plaid shirt for the first time; right?
A That's what I told them, if I wasn't
mistaken.
Q And you had never told anybody that in over
two months; right?
A Right.
Q You just sort of held that back. Was
that a bargaining chip or
something?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q So you got to -- what time did you get to
A I would say somewhere around -- somewhere
between
Q So on the 21st, you got to
A
Q
A I went to Whitesport
to Mr. Wilson's office.
Q You went to Whitesport
at Mr. Wilson's
Page 638
office. And what did you do
there?
A I sat there in my truck for a little
while.
Q How long would you say you sat in your
truck?
A Probably about 30, 35, 40 minutes.
Q About 30 or 35 or 40 minutes. So that would put it down to about what
time, about 4:15?
A Well, no, sir, I would say about
Q A little after
A A little after
Q Let's go with
A Yes,
sir.
Q And you sat there in your truck. And what were you doing?
A Just sitting there.
Q Just sitting there. What were you doing just sitting there?
A Listening to the radio.
Q Did you have your rope with you?
A Drinking.
Page 639
Q And you were drinking in your truck. Did you have your rope with you?
A Yes, sir.
It was -- well, the rope came off part of a rope I carry in the back of
my truck
at all times.
Q It came off of what?
A Part of a cord I keep in the back of my
truck to tie stuff.
Q You keep that in your truck all the time?
A Not that short, no, sir.
Q Where did this one come from?
A Came off the one I used to carry in my
truck when I was hauling materials and stuff.
Q Was it in the front of your truck or the
back of your truck or in the tool box or what?
A It was laying in the back of my truck.
Q You keep a lot of things in your truck,
don't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You have got crowbars there, don't you?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q What?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q And a lot of heavy equipment?
Page 640
A I don't know what you mean by heavy
equipment.
Q But, in any event, the rope was there?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you were sitting there drinking beer?
A Yes, sir.
Q And -- well, what are you doing, what are
you there for?
A I'm there waiting for Mr. Wilson to come to
work.
Q Waiting for him to come to work?
A Yes, sir.
Q And it's
A
Q I thought you said in the afternoon.
A No, sir.
Q So it's
A Yes, sir.
Q You are just sitting there. And how long do
you sit there?
A Like I said, I stayed there about 30
minutes, and I moved the truck.
Page 641
Q Where did you move your truck to?
A Over behind the shopping center across
the street from his office.
Q What was the shopping center?
A I don't know the name of it.
Q What did you do then?
A Pulled in around behind the buildings and
parked behind the buildings where I could still watch his office.
Q How long did you stay there?
A Oh, probably about an hour and a half,
two hours.
Q And what time would you say that you left
the area?
A Probably about 6:30, a little bit till
Q And I guess you were expecting him to
come by
A I was told he usually got to work pretty
early.
Q Because
doctors usually--open their
offices up at 6:00,
A Not basically on a general rule, but
that’s what I was told when
he would be there.
Page 642
Q Who told you that?
A The first information came through Mrs.
Lowe.
Q Who else told you that?
A Mrs. Wilson.
Q Well, when did she
tell you that?
A
During one of our phone conversations.
Q And you had never met her, had you?
A No, sir.
Q You hadn't met Mrs. Wilson yet, you just
met Mrs. Lowe that you are in love with?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you weren't fantasizing?
A What do you mean by fantasizing?
Q You don't know what I mean by having a
fantasy, a dream?
A If you are talking about that I was
dreaming that I was in love with Mrs. Lowe, no, sir, I was not.
Q You really were in love with her, weren't
you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You really saw her as a beautiful lady?
A Yes, sir.
Page 643
Q A lovely lady?
A Yes, sir.
Q That was very nice to you in the
classroom, she let you build
some shelves , gave you work at the house; right? You knew her husband, didn't
you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Knew her little girl, didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q You came there and did work and you were
paid for it, weren't you?
A In a
roundabout way, yes, sir.
Q And you called her repeatedly and on two or
three occasions you pled with her and told her
you were about to kill
yourself and kept her on the phone for an hour and a half, didn't you, telling
her that you were going to kill yourself if she didn't talk with you?
A No,
sir.
Q Isn't that the trick that you have always
played?
A No, sir.
Q Haven't you tried to commit suicide from 12
to 14 times, and you always play on other
Page 644
people's mercies and
emotions, but you have never been able to kill yourself?
A No, sir.
Q If you want to kill yourself, it's pretty
easy, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you have never really wanted to do
it, have you?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q And you have tried 12 or 14 times and you
have missed every time; right?
A No,
sir.
Q So after that you left his office at
about
A I wasn't at his office at
Q Well, where were you at
A I told you, over behind the shopping center
across the street from his office.
Q How far was that from his office?
A Speaking in yards, I would say about 150
yards, maybe 200 yards.
Q You were still drinking?
Page 645
A Yes,
sir.
Q Still pilling?
A Yes, sir.
Q What kind of pills do you have?
A I'm taking my Darvocets
and white crosses, or fast ones, whichever one you prefer to call them.
Q Ever what I prefer to call them?
A Well, I mean --
Q We will call it what you want to.
A I call them fast ones because they are
bought across the counter.
Q Call it what?
A Fast ones.
Q And you are pilling and drinking?
A Yes, sir.
Q It's a wonder you hadn't killed somebody in
your truck, isn't it --
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q -- before you even got to
A Well, I wasn't drunk, but I was well on my
way.
Q What does it take to get you drunk?
A In terms of alcohol?
Page 646
Q Yeah.
A Well , I have been able to sit down and
drink a case and a half.
Q Case and a half. Would that be pony
sizes or big sizes?
A 12-ounce beers.
Q Doesn't bother you a bit, does it?
A Most of the time, no, sir.
Q Case and a half of beer at one sitting
and then you get you some
dope after that?
A Once I start on the dope, though, then I
can't handle it.
Q Yeah.
You have had all sorts of dope, haven't you?
A No, sir, I haven't.
Q What about LSD?
A No, sir.
Q It's in all of your medical records at
the VA hospital, that you
told them. Did you lie to them?
A They called all types of hallucinogenic
drugs LSD, but what I took was acid, it was not called LSD.
Q What you said was acid?
Page 647
A Yes, sir.
Q And you say acid
is not LSD?
A Well , on the
street terms and according
to the drug world, no, sir, LSD is a pure form of
hallucinogenic drug that all the other acids are
made from.
Q You seem to know a good bit about it, don't
you?
A I used to run around with a lot of
people.
Q And they got you in trouble, didn't they?
A Not all the times.
Q Let's go back to where you were. At
A Well, when he didn’t show up, I just
started riding around, didn't know what to do. Then I waited until I thought
Mrs. Lowe would be up, then I called Mrs. Lowe's home.
MR.
COOK: Could I kindly ask the Court
to give -me about -- a
break?
THE
COURT: Sure, we will do that.
Ladies and Gentlemen, go
into the jury room and we will take a break.
Page 488
(Whereupon, proceedings were
in recess at 2:25 p.m., until 2:40 p.m., at which time, the witness, James
Dennison white, resumed the stand, and the following occurred:
THE COURT: You ready?
MR. COOK: I apologize to the Court for the
interruption. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: That's all right.
CONTINUATION
OF CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. COOK:
Q Mr. White, we are back in
A Yes, sir.
Q And you are there drinking your beer?
A Yes, sir.
Q Taking your pills?
A Yes, sir.
Q By yourself?
A Yes, sir.
Q In your truck?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then where do you go from there?
Page 649
A Like I stated, I had started riding
around and stuff until I
thought it was time for
Mrs. Lowe to get up, and I went
to a pay phone and I made a phone call to Mrs. Lowe.
Q Where do you ride around to?
A Right around in the vicinity, because I
know nothing about
Q Know nothing about it at all?
A No, sir.
Q Been to
A No sir, not until I was questioned about doing
this crime.
Q My question, had you been to
A Had I been there before the 21st?
Q Yes.
A Yes, sir.
Q When were you here?
A Either the 15th or 16th.
Q Either the 15th or 16th?
A Yes, sir.
Q Didn't have a gun then?
A No, sir.
Q Never did bring a gun to
Page 650
A No, sir, I did not.
Q But you took one away from
A No, sir, I did not.
Q All right.
So you just rode around. Where did
you go, what was your next stop?
A In a shopping center mall parking lot.
Q And what did you do in the parking lot?
A I went and used the pay phone.
Q What lot was that?
A One right there on Whitesport,
is all I know. It got Winn Dixie
grocery store and several other shops.
Q You used the telephone, and about what time
was that?
A I would say around
Q Where did you go after that?
A Basically I just rode around waiting on Mrs.
Q You just rode around.
A Yes, sir.
Q -- from
A Until I met Mrs. Wilson down at Parkway
City Mall.
Page 651
Q So you were just drunk, driving around
town in that old pickup truck?
A Well, I went to the parking lot and
parked for the biggest part
of the time, at Parkway City Mall.
Q But you were just riding around?
A Yes, sir.
Q Going nowhere in particular?
A No, sir.
Q And then you were waiting on Mrs. Wilson
to show up?
A Yes,
sir.
Q And you're going to meet her where?
A Parkway City Mall at Chick-Fil-A.
Q At the Chick-Fil-A. And that's a big mall, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q And it's very heavily populated, a lot of
people there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Especially in the middle of the day?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you are going to meet Mrs. Wilson, she
suggests to you that she should meet you at one of
Page 652
the most populous places in
A Yes, sir.
Q And you go there, and what time do you
get to Chick-Fil-A?
A I have no idea exactly what time it was.
Q Well, just tell me the best that you can.
A Well, it was pretty crowded. So I'll say
around
Q Around
A Yes, sir.
Q And what did you do when you got there?
What time were you supposed to meet her?
A I was just there waiting on her then.
Q Well, was there any time given?
A She told me it would take her about three
hours, and meet her at Chick-Fil-A around
lunchtime, that is all I can
say.
Q So
you got there about
A Yes sir.
Q Where did you go?
A I was sitting on the benches in the
Page 653
center of the aisle. I was waiting and watching and looking.
When I seen her come down to get in the line of Chick-Fil-A,
I got up and got in the line of Chick-Fil-A.
Q How long were you sitting on the benches
after you got there, the best that you can
give me?
A 15, 20 minutes.
Q 15 to 20 minutes on the benches. So,
now, then, you saw her after
you had been sitting on the benches for 15 or 20 minutes. That would be about
A We didn't really go inside, because the way
the counter is set up, it kind of sits right
next to the aisle, the
walkway in from the shopping mall.
Q But there was a line?
A Yes, sir, we got in the line.
Q Pretty long line, wasn't there?
A Wasn't that long but quite a few people
in
it.
Q But you got in line?
A Yes, sir.
Q And she got in line?
Page 654
A Yes, sir.
Q Was she in the same line you were in or in
a different line?
A In a different line.
Q In a different line. And how long did it take you to get from the
line up to the counter to put your order in?
A Probably --
Q Just approximately.
A Probably five or six minutes.
Q Five or six minutes. And then you
ordered your sandwich, you bought
a sandwich;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And she bought a sandwich?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long would you say it took both of
you
in the line, 10 or 15 minutes?
A No, sir.
Q Five minutes, ten minutes?
A Probably about two to three minutes.
Q And then you went back and you sat down
on
the bench?
A Yes, sir.
Page 655
Q And then you ate your sandwich?
A I was eating my sandwich, yes, sir.
Q And you took your time; you were in no
hurry?
A No, sir.
Q Nothing to do?
A No, sir.
Q Was a leisurely day?
A Yes, sir.
Q Just drinking and eating; right?
A Well, at that time I was eating.
Q Would you have stayed there 30 minutes?
A No, sir.
I didn't stay there that long.
Q 20 minutes?
A Probably about 10, 15 minutes.
Q About 10 or 15 minutes. And while you were eating your sandwich, and
I guess she just walked over and handed you this bag?
A She walked over, handed me the bag and
asked me if I would throw it in the trash can for her.
Q Did you know -- did she say what was
going to be in it?
A We had already discussed that previous to
Page 656
the meeting.
Q Going to leave a hundred-dollar bill in it;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you knew there was going to be a
hundred-dollar bill --
A I didn't know how much. She just told me there would be some money in
the sack.
Q What, now?
A I didn't know the amount. She just told me
there would be some money in the sack.
Q Oh, I see.
She did not tell you the amount of the money?
A No, sir.
Q Well, when you got up there were you
completely broke?
A No, sir, not completely.
Q How much money did you have, did you take up
there?
A I probably had 20 or 30 dollars.
Q 20 or 30 dollars . And when you got this
hundred, that added to your 20 or 30?
A Well, now, you've got to take into
consideration I bought beer and gas on the way up
Page 657
here, so by the time I got
here I might have had $15 1eft.
Q You were about busted out?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then after that you do what, you go
where?
A I went to Kmart.
Q Well, now, you said a few minutes ago on
direct examination, and I wrote it down,
that you went to the Kmart between 2:00 and 2:30 p.m.
A Well, like I told you, I don't know what
time of day it exactly was. I know it was
lunchtime. I know I went to Kmart shortly after I left
Chick-Fil-A.
Q You didn't tell me that. You told Mr.
Fry that. You said a few minutes ago, and I understand
you don't know exactly, but you told him that you got to Kmart between 2:00 and
2:30 p.m.
A Okay.
Yes, sir.
Q Do you want to stick with that or do you
want to change it?
A I just say I went to Kmart. I can't put no
specific time on it.
Q Well, if you can't put no time on it, why
Page 658
did you tell him 2 o'clock
to 2 :30?
A We'll stick with 2:00 to 2:30, then.
Q You'll go along with about what everybody
says, even me?
A No, sir.
I just can't remember, you
know, from one minute to the
next the way you're questioning me.
Q And what did you do at Kmart?
A I bought some undershorts,
bought some T- shirts, and I bought a small traveling kit with a toothbrush,
toothpaste, and some shaving cream in it, and then I bought some after-shave
lotion.
Q And here you are, you had how many beers,
been driving all night so you'd been drinking all night --
A No, sir.
Q Been pilling?
A No, sir.
I had not been drinking all night.
Q Well, how long had you been drinking?
A I approximately started drinking when I
left coming up here.
Q How many would you say you'd had? Be
conservative.
Page 659
A Be-conservative. I would say probably
six or seven beers.
Q Six or seven beers. What kind of pills were you taking?
A I was taking the fast ones to stay awake.
Q And you remember everything that you
bought with absolute
clarity?
A Yes, sir.
Q I bet you even know what you paid for it.
A No, sir, I don't.
Q And
your went from the Kmart, I believe
you said and rented a hotel room?
A Yes,
sir, I did.
Q You
immediately left the Kmart on
Thursday afternoon and
rented a room at the Ramada Inn?
A Well, not immediately. I went looking for a motel. I couldn't find one. I passed the Ramada Inn, I had to come back
up, I had to get back on the right road to go back to the Ramada Inn to turn
in, because I missed the turn.
Q Did not you -- I could have been
mistaken --
A Yes, sir, I did tell him I went directly
Page 660
to rent a room.
Q But did you not tell Mr. Fry -- wait just
a minute, give me a break,
too. Did you not tell
Mr. Fry on direct
examination that you left the Kmart, you went directly to the Ramada Inn and
rented a room?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And that's false?
A No, sir, it's not false. I just missed the turn-in and had to turn
around and go back, give five or ten minutes on going directly to the Ramada
Inn, but I went directly there.
Q But you never got out of your truck?
A No, sir.
Q You went from the Kmart to the Ramada Inn
and you missed your turn-in?
A Yes, sir.
Q Just give or take five or ten minutes out
of the way?
A Right.
Q Well, you did go there, then?
A I went straight to the Ramada Inn, yes,
sir.
Q But you never stopped?
Page 661
A No. I didn't.
Q Well, that's what I'm talking about.
What you told him is right,
then?
A Yes, sir.
Q You went straight to the Ramada Inn and
checked in?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you went up -- you had no credit
cards?
A Not sir.
Q And you had busted your hundred-dollar
bill, I guess, over at the Kmart?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q So you went to the Ramada Inn and checked
in?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, tell the jury what time you checked
in to the Ramada Inn.
A I‘ll say around 3 o’clock.
Q 3 o'clock in the afternoon?
A Yes, sir.
Q Don't you know that's a lie?
A No -- well
Q What?
Page 662
A I
don't know. I'm giving you the time
the best I can to my
ability. I'm going to say
3 o'clock in the afternoon.
Q 3 o'clock in the afternoon. And that was on Thursday?
A Yes, sir.
Q May 21st. And then you went to your
room?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who did you check in with there?
A Ever who was running the desk.
Q Who was running the desk?
A I don't know.
Q I'm not talking about the name. Man or
woman?
A There was a man and also a woman there ,
young lady.
Q Man and a woman. And you paid your bill? A Yes, sir.
Q And you paid with cash?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you gave him your driver's license?
A Yes, sir.
Q When you checked in?
Page 663
A Yes, sir.
Q Told him what your name was?
A Yes, sir.
Q And did you tell him what your occupation
was?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q What was it?
A Construction.
Q What?
A Construction work.
Q Construction. Said you were up there looking for work,
didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was that true? Wasn't it the truth?
A Was it the truth I was looking for work?
Q Yeah.
A No, sir, it wasn't.
Q It wasn't the truth?
A I wasn't in Huntsville looking for
construction work, no, sir.
Q You were not looking for any work?
A Not in construction.
Q You did not come to do any work?
A Not in Huntsville, not construction work.
Page 664
Q So you Checked in about 3 o'clock in the
afternoon?
A Yes, sir.
Q Went to your room?
A Yes, sir.
Q And stayed in your room?
A Not the whole time, no, sir.
Q Well, how long did you stay in your room?
Got you in the room now at about 3 o'clock, not exactly, but give or take a few
minutes. You're in the Ramada Inn on
Thursday afternoon?
A Yes, sir.
Q Tell us what you do.
A I sit there maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
Then I went to Captain D's.
Q Let's say 3:45 to 4 o'clock you're in
your room at the Ramada Inn.
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you decide that you want to eat?
A Yes, sir.
Q You go to Captain D's; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And where is Captain D's in relation to
the Ramada Inn?
Page 665
A It's back down on -- I think it's Whitesport. I'm not
for sure of what the name of
the road is. It's about half a mile from the Ramada Inn.
Q So you go down and you have a nice
seafood lunch?
A No, sir.
Q Well, what -- you had a nice lunch?
A I had a nice seafood lunch, but I didn't
stay there. I got the food and went to
the motel room.
Q Oh, I see.
So you went to Captain D's and got a take-out and came back to your room
where you could have some privacy and quiet?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you had been up most of the night,
hadn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q I guess you were pretty tired?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you got back to your motel room at
about what time?
A I'd say 4:30.
Q About 4:30. And then what did you do?
Page 666
Did you take a nap?
A No, sir, I eat.
Q You ate.
And what did you do, watch any television?
A I cut the TV on, yes.
Q What?
A I cut the TV on.
Q Turned the TV on to see what was
happening in the world; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And how long did you stay there?
A The rest of the night.
Q Stayed there the rest of the night and
didn't leave?
A I didn’t leave the room until the next day,
no, sir.
_y
Q Didn't leave the room. And in order so that I don't make any
mistake about this, because sometimes -- I'm getting old and I forget things,
and sort of like the doctor says about you, I chronically misinterpret what
other people say. I just want to make sure that we're right on this. This is
Thursday. You're at the Kmart between
2:00 and 2:30?
Page 667
A Yes, sir.
Q You go there after you leave the Chick-Fil-A?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you go from the Kmart to the
Ramada Inn?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you don't stop. You get lost about five or ten minutes. You go to the Ramada Inn, you check in at
about 3 o'clock in the afternoon;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you stay in your room until about
3:45 p.m.?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you go out just for a little
while to Captain D's?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then when you leave Captain D's, you
get your food and take it back to the room?
A Yes, sir.
Q You eat it, you watch television a little
bit?
A Yes, sir.
Page 668
Q And you don't go out anymore?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's the truth, isn't it?
A As far as I can remember, yes, sir.
Q Well, your memory is all right now, isn't
it?
A Well, there’s one part in there --
Q I say you're not in a fog now?
A No , sir .
Q And you're not about to have a blackout, are
you?
A No, sir.
Q Well, there's something I want you to
tell the jury and there's something I want you to
tell me.
A Yes, sir.
Q What time of the day Thursday did you go up
to Dr. Wilson's house?
A That I can't remember. I knew that was coming because I realized --
I realized that when I was making the statement. Evidently --
Q You're just a big liar, aren't you?
A No, sir, I'm not.
Q Well, didn't you tell this jury earlier
Page 669
today that you went up to
the Wilson house on Thursday and rode around and jogged?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Well, didn't you tell the jury just now
that you left the Chick-Fil-A, that you went to the
Kmart, that you went from the Kmart straight to the Ramada Inn, to Captain D's
and back to the Ramada Inn and never left your room?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And both of those stories are absolutely
opposite, aren't they?
A Yes, sir, they're opposite.
Q And one of them has got to be a bald-face
lie, hasn't it? Yes.
A No, sir.
Q So that's your story and you are going to
stick to that, aren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, when did you come up with this
version?
A It's like I've been trying to tell you, I
can't remember the times. You are
wanting a time.
I can't tell you the times
because I don't carry a watch with me.
Page 670
Q Let me ask you this: You spent the night in the Ramada Inn; is
that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Stayed there all night?
A Yes, sir.
Q Never left?
A I'm not going to say I didn't leave.
Q Well, did you leave?
A I can't remember.
Q You don't know whether you left or not?
A I can't remember.
Q So you still -- you're getting a blackout
now --
A No.
Q -- even before the killing?
A I was just drinking. I may have walked out of the room and walked
around. I don’t know.
Q Did you go anywhere in your truck?
A As far as I can remember, no, sir, I
didn't.
Q So your answer would be as far as you
know you never left your
room. As you sit on the stand now,
that's your best testimony; is that right?
Page 671
A As far as that night goes, no, sir.
Q What?
A As far as that nighttime goes --
Q Thursday night?
A No, sir, I did not leave the Ramada Inn
in my truck.
Q You did not leave your room. Now, we've got
you from Chick-Fil-A back to the hotel and you never
left your room other than going to Captain D's, and you're there all night;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q You're there all night. And do you rest
well? Do you sleep well or were you worried about anything?
A Well, I didn't rest very well, no, sir, I
did not.
Q Well, what did you do? Did you roll and
toss?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when did you wake up?
A When I got a phone call.
Q And about what time was that?
A I'll say about 6 o'clock.
Q About 6 o'clock?
Page 672
A Yes, sir.
Q And then what did you do after you got
the phone call?
A Nothing.
Q Well, how long did you stay in your room?
A Until almost check-out time.
Q So you stayed in your room -- we are on
Friday now?
A Yes, sir.
I know.
Q Right?
A Yes, sir.
Q May the 22nd. So you stayed in your room until almost
check-out time?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what was check-out time?
A I can't remember, but I think it was
around 1 o'clock.
Q Around 1 o'clock. So you're really in
the Ramada Inn from Thursday
afternoon, when you arrived, other than going out to Captain D's, until about 1
o'clock Friday --
A Yes, sir.
Q -- right? And what do you do then at
1
o'clock?
Page 673
A I check out of the hotel.
Q You check out of the hotel Now, you've already paid your bi11, haven’t
you?
A As far as the room.
Q What?
A As far as the room, yes, sir, I had.
Q Paid anything else?
A I had to pay for the phone ca11s I made.
Q And when did you make the phone calls? That
was on Thursday, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And in the afternoon. One was at
6
o'clock and one was at 8 o'clock?
A I don't know the exact times, but I know
they was in the evening time when I made them.
Q And you checked into the hotel that
afternoon around 3 o'clock?
A Yes, sir.
Q Afternoon of the 21st?
A Yes, sir. .
MR. COOK: Would someone bring Mr. David Williamson into the
courtroom, please? I want to see if you can recognize someone?
MR. HOOPER: He's already gone.
Page 674
MR. COOK: He's already gone.
Q Did you see anyone at the Ramada Inn that
you talked with on Friday afternoon between 4 and
5 o'clock p.m.?
A Not that I can remember of, no, sir.
Q You wouldn't have been there between 4
and 5 o'clock p.m.?
A No, sir.
Q Under your version, would you?
A No, sir, I would not have been.
Q Because you left, you checked out at
about 1 o'clock p.m. on
Friday and you never returned?
A That's right.
Q And if anyone said that they saw you
there at the Ramada Inn --
MR. DRAKE: He is here.
MR. COOK: Bring Mr. Williamson in and let's see if you
have ever seen this gentleman before.
(Brief pause.)
Q Do you know this gentleman? Have you
ever seen him before in your
life?
A Not to my recollection, I haven't.
Page 675
Q All right.
Thank you.
You
certainly could not have seen him at the Ramada Inn before 4 and 5 o'clock?
A No, sir, I could not.
Q That would have been impossible?
A Yes, sir, it would have been impossible.
Q And that just couldn't have happened
because you left at 1 o'clock?
A Right.
Q And when you left at 1 o'clock, where did
you go?
A I stopped by Kmart and bought some oil,
bought --
Q Back at Kmart?
A Bought some oil and bought a can of
carburetor cleaner.
Q And I believe you changed your oil?
A I just added oil to my truck.
Q What?
A I just added oil to my truck, I didn't
change no oil.
Q You added oil to your truck after you
came by the Kmart. About what time was that?
A I have no idea. All I know is it was in
Page 676
the afternoon. I would say around 1:30, quarter till 2:00.
Q And where did you go then?
A I went over to Parkway City Mall and
parked.
Q At the Parkway City Mall. And that is when,
I believe you said, Mrs. Wilson came down and picked you up?
A It was around 2:30.
Q Between 2:30 and 3:00?
A Yes, sir.
Q And this is a very active mall, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q A lot of people there, a lot of traffic,
right in the middle of town; right?
A I guess so.
Q Well --
A I don't know. I'm
not from Huntsville. But on that particular afternoon, no, sir, there
was not that much traffic
running around and there wasn't that many people in the parking lot.
Q So this is Friday, May the 22nd in the
afternoon and there are, not many people there?
A Not in the parking lot...
Page 677
Q Is that your testimony?
A In the parking lot.
Q And you've seen -- now, according to your
testimony you've seen this lady on one occasion?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was at the Logan Martin Dam on May
the 20th?
A And also at Chick-Fil-A
at Parkway City Mall.
Q I understand. On May the 20th; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And she pulls up in a parking lot in the
middle of the daytime in Huntsville, and she gets out and squats down and puts
on some tennis shoes; isn't that what you said?
A No, sir, it's not.
Q Well, what did you say?
A I said she was tying some tennis shoes.
Q Didn't you say she was squatting down?
A Yes, sir.
She was squatting down tying some tennis shoes.
Q Outside her vehicle?
A Yes.
Q Is that right?
Page 678
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you jump in the car?
A Yes , sir.
Q You get in the car with your little white
and black bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q With nothing but your rope in it?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you have got a bag. You have got a
bag, as I understand it, a
shopping bag a little bit bigger than this, and you put your rope in it?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that is all you have got in it. And you
get in the car?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that makes a lot of sense, doesn't
it?
A Well, it was to me.
Q Was the bag to carry your rope in?
A Yes, sir.
Q Well, you could just put that rope -- you
can put that rope in your vest pocket, can't you? I can just stuff it down
there, can't I?
A Yes, sir.
Page 679
Q And you could have done that?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you prefer to put it in a shopping
bag?
A Yes , sir.
Q Because you figured that that was the way it
ought to be done?
A Yes , sir.
Q And I guess already that you had kept
this shopping bag because
that's the one that Mrs. Lowe -- Mrs. Lowe gave you the $2500 in; right?
A I don't know the reason I kept it. I just
did.
Q Didn't you tell -- didn't you tell Mr.
Brantley, and didn't you tell this Court
earlier, that the white and black shopping bag that you put under the rock was
the one that Mrs. Lowe gave you the $2500 in?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And you even remembered when you got the
$2500, that it was three $100 bills and the rest was in twenties?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that correct?
Page 680
A Yes, sir.
Q In May, when you went to the Bank of
Childersburg and someone in the bank saw you with two stacks of money that
still had the bands on it, that looked like $2,000, two $1,000 stacks, where did
that come from?
A I never had no such money.
Q So ever who saw that or said that, that,
too, was a mistake.
A Yes, sir.
Q -- wasn't it? Because that just didn't
happen?
A No, sir, it didn't.
Q And anyone that said that, it was an
error, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q So
then about 3 o’clock you go –- she takes you to her house and you’ve got these
dirty clothes on that you had been wearing for two days, got oil on the
britches?
A Yes, sir.
Q Got oil on the britches and other carbon
products, and you get down,
as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you get down with your legs
Page 681
into -- you are laying down
in the floorboard such
as this with your legs?
A Yes, sir.
Q And anything, the oil or grease that you
had on your trousers could have gotten on the floorboard? You were not exactly
clean as you are now, were you?
A No, sir, I wasn't.
Q You looked like a ragamuffin, didn't you?
A If that's what you want to say, sir.
Q Well, it's not what I want to say. You
were pretty dirty and nasty,
weren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you were greasy and your pants were
greasy? It's not what I want to say,
it's what I want you to say. And all
I want you to say is the truth for a change.
A The pants that you're referring to had
been work pants for quite a
while, so there’s probably a lot of grease, probably a lot of oil spots on
them, but I don’t know if there was any fresh oil or grease on them.
Q So
you lay down in the floorboard, and
you go -- and she -- part of
your body is up in the
Page 682
seat?
A Yes
sir.
Q And this is in the middle of the daytime?
A Yes
sir.
Q And you go right by -- and you go right
through the busiest part of Huntsville, by a school where a school guard is at
3 o'clock and where school is turning out and changing?
A I have no idea.
Q You don't have any idea. And that makes
a lot of sense, doesn't it?
That's the way it happened, didn't it?
A That's the way it happened, yes, sir.
Q And did y'all talk while you were going
to the house? Did you have a
conversation?
A We said very few words to each other.
Q And then she took you right straight to
the house; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And
drove you right into the garage?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when you got out she gave you $40 and
said good luck?
A No, sir.
Page 683
Q Gave you $40?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you went in the house?
A No, sir.
Q Well, what did you do?
A She opened the door for me and she proceeded
to --
Q She opened the door for you. And you
went in the house?
A Yes, sir. And she proceeded to tell me where
Jack's bedroom was at.
Q Where Jack's bedroom was. And you went
in the house and I guess you
had your little bag?
A Yes, sir.
Q Your little white and black bag with this
big piece of rope?
A Yes, sir.
Q No knife, no weapon? You've already said that repeatedly?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q No knife?
A As far as I can remember, no, sir.
Q No weapon?
A As far as I can remember.
Page 684
Q No nothing. You got your bag with a rope in it and you
go in and you start rumbling through the drawers, just like you have said,
looking for money and valuables?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then everything is fine until you walk
out while you're looking for money and valuables, and you run into the man that
obviously owns the house or occupies the house; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And being the coward you are when you are
sober and the violent one you are when you are drunk, you jumped on him, didn't
you?
A Not sir, I did not.
Q And he grabbed you?
A First, yes, sir.
Q He grabbed you and he should have grabbed
you, shouldn't he?
A Yes, sir.
Q And he should have taken the ball bat and
beat you to death, shouldn't he?
A Yes, sir.
Q That way we would all have been better
off?
Page 685
A Yes, sir.
Q But it didn't happen that way?
A No, sir, it didn't.
Q And then you had a blackout?
A Evidently.
Q You had a blackout. And then if all of that
were not enough, you tell this Court and
jury under oath as you sit on the stand today, that you had sexual relations
with Peggy Lowe?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And that Peggy Lowe returned your embraces?
A Yes, sir.
Q Kissing?
A Yes, sir.
Q You have never lied about that, have you?
A No, sir, I haven't.
Q You always told the truth about that,
haven't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Because you certainly --
A Let me rephrase that. No, sir.
At first I did not tell about us having a sexual
relationship.
Page 686
Q Well, of course, you've lied about
everything at one time or another, haven't you?
A I just never did tell the whole truth.
Q I say haven't you lied about everything?
A No, sir.
Q Part of it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You have lied about part of it at all times,
haven't you?
A No, sir.
Q And you were asked -- you were asked had you
ever been to her house on a social visit and you repeatedly said that you never
saw her socially. That's true, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q You never saw her socially, you never
went anywhere with her?
A No, sir.
Q She never sent you any letters?
A Yes, sir, she did.
Q Letters. Where are they?
A I got rid of them.
Q Oh, you got rid of them. When did you get
rid of them?
Page 687
A Shortly after I received them and read
them.
Q Well, you were in love with her, weren't
you?
A Yes , sir.
Q And you destroyed the letters?
A Yes , sir.
Q They asked you for letters, didn't they?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you said you didn't have them and you
had never gotten anything from her, didn't you?
A No, sir.
Q That's not so?
A No, sir.
Q And you were asked where did you meet,
where did you meet her, and you said at the schoolhouse. You were working at the schoolhouse, weren't
you?
A Yes, sir.
Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you also said that you never had an
intimate relationship with her?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 688
Q And in all of these statements that you
have made and in all seven of them that we have, you never told anyone that you
had had a sexual relationship with her?
A I think I did make a statement that we
did have a sexual
relationship in one of the statements.
Q I didn't ask you whether you -- in any of
these statements? Who did you tell that?
A I told Micky
Brantley we had a sexual relationship.
Q And when did you say that it occurred?
A I told him it occurred on May 15th.
Q Are
you really positive about that?
A I'm almost positive about it. I'm not going to be quite sure about the
date, but I'm pretty sure it's the 15th.
Q Well, do you think it's the 15th?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Could it have been April the 15th?
A No, sir, it could not.
Q Definitely could not have been April the
15th?
A No, sir, it could not.
Page 689
Q Why not?
A Just because it couldn't.
Q Just because it couldn't?
A Well, there is a lot of circumstances to
the reason why it could not have been.
Q Well, what is the circumstance that it
could not have been?
A At the time I just don't guess she was
ready. I had tried.
Q Well, don't you know that you have told
Mr. Brantley that you thought it was April the 15th?
A I may have.
Q But that would have been a lie, wouldn't
it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Something that I wonder about that Mr. Fry
did not ask you about --
MR. COOK: May I get a little
water, Judge.
(Brief pause.)
Q That Mr. Fry did not ask you about, and
did not want to let it escape me. What
about gloves?
Page 690
A Yes, sir, I had surgical gloves.
Q I know they were in the sack down there.
They were there in that sack or, at least, there's three in one sack, but I
take it that you had gloves on when you went in the house?
A I didn't have them on when I went in the
house. I put them on after I got inside.
Q Well, that's what I mean, you were -- you
took your gloves inside with you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Where were they?
A They were in the bag, also.
Q They were in the bag. But when you said a few minutes ago that
just the rope or the cord was
in the bag, that was wrong,
you forgot about the gloves?
A Yes, sir.
Q And Mr. Fry didn't ask you anything about
the gloves, did he?
A I can't remember if he did or not.
Q And you took a pair of surgical gloves in
the house with you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then you put them on?
Page 691
A Yes, sir.
Q And had them on all during the time you were
in the house?
A Yes, sir.
Q And then I guess that when you woke up
down there in the woods -- when you woke up down there in the woods, when you
were squatting down in the woods and your old clothes were in this bag and you
had new clothes on, did you still have your gloves on?
A I can't remember if I did or not, sir.
Q Do you remember when you took them off?
A No, sir, I cannot.
Q And you've always known -- you've always
known you had the gloves on in the house?
A As
far as I know, I put them on when I went in the house and I had them on the
whole time.
Q My question is, you have always known
that?
A As far as I know, yes, sir.
Q Well, let's go over here and I want you
to follow with me. Let's get your May 29 tape- recorded
statements and go to page 25, and I'll
show you where to
start. Right up here at the top,
Page 692
we'll just start at the
top. Mr. Brantley said -- I'll tell you
what we'll do, I'll just read the questions and you read the answers, how would
that be?
A Yes, sir.
Q I'm Mr. Brantley. "What all did you
touch inside the house that
you recall?" Read the answer.
A I said, "I touched some drawers and
stuff in there just mostly looking through them to see if there was any money in
them."
Q "Did you wear any gloves?"
A "Yes, sir, I did."
Q "What kind of gloves?"
A "I was wearing surgical gloves."
Q "What did you do with those
gloves?"
A "I guess I throwed
them out on the way home."
Q Well, let's stop there. That's a lie, isn't it?
A At the time I couldn't remember.
Q I say that's a lie, isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right. And then I said -- then Mr.
Page 693
Brantley said,. "On the
way home?" And what did you say?
A Yes, sir, after I returned to my truck.
Q And Mr. Brantley said, "You still had
the gloves on?" What did you say?
A I said, "No, sir.”
Q Read it all.
A "No, sir. The gloves, once I came out
of the house, I took the gloves off and I guess they were in my pocket, because
it seems as though I remember saying to Ms. Wilson, or something another about
she needed to wipe the back doorknob off
where I opened the door up
to get out."
Q "Did she say she would?"
A I don't remember.
Q No, read what it says.
A Oh.
"Yes, sir.”
Q Read what it says.
A "Yes, sir.”
Q It doesn't say "Yes, sir.”
A It says, "I can't remember if she
answered me or not.”
Q You can follow me, can't you?
A Yes, sir.
Page 693
Q And, then Brantley said, "So you did
wear those plastic surgical gloves?"
A "Yes, sir.”
Q Then Mr. Brantley said, "Okay. So you
did, uh, what did you do, you say you think you
threw them out?"
A "Yes, sir.”
Q And then Mr. Brantley said,
"Okay." Then tell the jury what you said next.
A Then I said, "Wait a minute. Wait a
minute. No. I didn't have the gloves, Mr.
Brantley. Because I had them on checking the fit on my
hands when I was sitting down in front of Mr. Wilson's place of
employment."
Q Mr. Brantley said, "You were doing
what, now?"
A "I put them on -- I put them on my
hands down where I was sitting down
Q "When."
A "The place of Mr. Wilson's
employment."
Q Read the rest of it.
A "I had put them on my hands and I had
to get out and tinker with my truck some, and when I took the gloves off and I
started back on with them,
Page 695
they tore." .
Q Mr. Brantley said, "Yeah. And then what did you say?
A "So I throwed
-- I threw the gloves away. So when I entered the man's house I did not have no
gloves on."
Q Well, that's a different story from what
you told him two or three minutes before, isn't it?
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q Well, which one is right? One of them
has got to be a lie.
A The one I told here in the courtroom.
Q Well, what is the one you told in the
courtroom?
A That I had surgical gloves on when I was
in the man's house.
Q So when you said, "So I throwed -- I
threw the gloves away, so
when I entered the man's house I did not have no gloves on”, that was an
absolute lie?
A Yes,
sir, it was.
Q Then Mr. Brantley said after you said
that, "So you didn't have gloves on?" Then what did you say?
Page 696
A "No, sir. But I did touch some drawers and stuff in
there, rambling through the drawers trying to see if there was any money in
there."
Q And that was another lie, wasn't it?
A No, sir.
I did rumble through the drawers.
Q It was a lie about you didn't have the
gloves on?
A Oh, yes, sir.
Q It was just -- so actually that was just
a half lie, because you did
ramble through the drawers looking for money, that's the truth --
A Yes, sir.
Q -- right? Pretty bad, isn't it?
A What are you talking about, sir?
Q So it's your testimony that you met Betty
Wilson in person on the 20th when Peggy
Lowe delivered the gun at the Logan
Martin Dam. You saw her again at the Chick-Fil-A
on Thursday the 21st, and you certainly saw her on Friday when she took you to
the house and brought you back?
A Yes, sir.
Q And came and picked you up? Now, you
left your truck when she picked you up, it was down
Page 697
at the Parkway City Mall;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And whatever you intended to do in the
Wilson home, whether you intended to hurt him with this rope or whether you
intended to steal or burglarize or pilfer or stalk her, how did you intend to
get back after you had done whatever it was that your contorted mind was going
to let you do?
A Well, the plan was for me to walk through
the woods and get back down to the main road and walk back to Parkway City
Mall.
Q Had you ever walked through the woods
before?
A No, sir, I had not.
Q You've never told that story, have you?
A What's that, sir?
Q That we had planned for me to walk
through the woods?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who
did you tell that to?
A If I'm not mistaken, I told Mr. Brantley
about it.
Q Told Mr. Brantley about it. And so you
Page 698
were going -- in the middle
of the daytime you were going to take your little bag with your rope and go in
the house and then walk through the woods, walk through the woods; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Back to the main road and go back to the
Parkway City Mall?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that was the original plan?
A Yes, sir.
Q And when she showed up, that was just something
that you never expected; it was just something that happened?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you were certainly glad to see her,
because it took a lot of pressure off of you, didn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Permitted you to get back quicker and
much easier.
Now,
listen to the next question very closely.
Here you are on the 26th, you're in trouble. You've gone into the house and apparently
killed someone and you are confessing, and then you
Page 699
tell them that you know
Peggy Lowe and, obviously, you did know Peggy Lowe. I don't think in the sense that you have
suggested, but we'll get to that
later. And also that she was involved; right,
Peggy Lowe?
A Yes, sir.
Q And also that Betty Wilson was involved;
right?
A Yes, sir.
Q At any time -- listen to my question. At any time did Mr. Brantley ever, at any
moment, ask you to describe Betty Wilson?
A Did he ask me to describe her?
Q Yeah.
A I can't remember if he did or not, sir,
to be honest with you.
Q Did he ever at any time show you a photo
line-up or a number of photographs and ask you if
you could pick her out?
A No, sir, he did not.
Q Did you at any time during that period of
time describe to Mr. Brantley, and there's nothing in these records, and I give
you my word, as to what she looked like?
Page 700
A As far as I can remember, no, sir, I did
not.
Q So you gave no description of her. Mr. Brantley didn't ask you to describe
her, nor did he ever ask you to identify her or to see if he
could -- if you could
identify her; right?
A As far as I can remember, no, sir.
Q Your tape recording that was made of you
on May the 27th, you want to
follow? It's on page
16.
A May the 27th, did you say, sir?
Q Page 16.
If you want to listen to it, the State has copies of the tape recording,
too. You remember Mr. Becher?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Mr. Becher is
talking about a telephone conversation that you allegedly had with Betty
Wilson, and he says, "Was this before you had ever met her in person or
was this after the –-“ Your reply was,
"As far as meeting the lady in person, I have never actually met the lady
in person. I had seen her a couple of times before she called me. But as far as meeting her, I've never really
met her."
Page 701
A That's the truth. And as far as meeting her, I have never met
Mrs. Wilson.
Q Okay.
Then Mr. Becher says, "When she brought
the gun to the dam, was that the f first time you saw her?" And you said,
"I seen her one other time before that." Is that true?
A I don't think it is, sir.
Q That's not true?
A I don't think so.
Q All right.
Now, you have told us about the Ramada Inn, and I'm going back to the
Ramada Inn just a little bit, if I may.
Do you remember
telling the officers that
you got to Huntsville sometime Thursday morning and you rode around the area
checking out certain things, that you rode around the area all day, and during
that
conversation you said
absolutely nothing about meeting Ms. Wilson or Mrs. Wilson at the
Chick-Fil-A?
A I know I did on some of my first
statements, yes, sir.
Q So did you intentional1y hold that back?
A Yes,
sir, I did.
Q You intentionally held that back and you
Page 702
didn't come with your Chick-Fil-A story until much later?
A Right.
Q You came with that several days later, is
when you got the Chick-Fil-A?
A Probably.
I can't remember, sir.
Q Well, that's the best you can remember,
isn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you ever tell anybody -- did you ever
tell anybody that you had a contract, a written contract? Think about it, now.
A No, sir.
I've never told anybody I had a written contract.
Q Never told anybody that? Anybody said
that is just a liar, too?
A Yes, sir.
Q You wouldn't have done anything like
that, would you; right?
A No, sir.
Q And what did you do Friday morning? What
did you say you did Friday morning the 22nd?
A Stayed in the motel room most of the
time.
Page 703
Q Do you remember telling Mr. Brantley that
you left Huntsville on Friday morning and started back to your house in
Vincent, and on the way home you started drinking and got almost to Birmingham
and decided to come back and do the job, and you didn't get back to Huntsville
until 2:00, 2:30, or
3 o'clock?
A Yes, sir, I remember making that
statement.
Q Well, is that true?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q That was just a lie, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q What was the purpose of that?
A That I have no idea. I was charged with a very serious crime and I
was scared.
Q Are you still scared?
A No, sir, I'm not.
Q Well, let's talk about that a little bit.
Everything that you have always been into, you have been able to make you a
deal, haven't you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q You got out of the Army. You wanted out?
A No, sir, I did not.
Page 704
Q And you turned into a coward and you faked
and shirked your duties and responsibilities in order to get out of the armed
services , and that's exactly what you wanted, wasn't it?
A No, sir, it was not.
Q And then you left, you left the court in
Alabama before you were sentenced, and you ran as a fugitive all over the
country, and you never would have come back unless you had been arrested on
more serious offenses in Arkansas, and you told them immediately you were
street wise and con wise and scam wise, and you told them immediately, oh,
they're looking for me in Alabama, send me back to Alabama. You are not dumb, are you?
A No, sir, I've never made them kinds of
statements.
Q You said you wanted to go back to
Alabama, that they were
looking for you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q And here -- and here in this case you've
made you a deal to where the plea bargain agreement that you entered into is
contingent. Do you know what I mean by
contingent, upon you giving testimony, which places that lady in the electric
Page 705
chair or in the penitentiary
for the rest of her life, and you're trying to save your own neck, whatever it
takes; isn't that correct?
A No, sir, it's not.
Q Because they agree and you agree that you
are the critical witness; right? That's what it says?
A Yes, sir.
Q And if a jury can't believe you, they can't
believe what you say happened in this case; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's what you've got to do in order to
save your own sorry neck, isn't it?
A No, sir.
Q And this plea bargain, this conditional plea
bargain, provides that it's contingent and if you change your story, if you
change your story in any way, the effect of it would be to put you in the
electric chair, you know that, don't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q And it's just like a round steel rod
straight up your back, isn't it?
A No, sir, it's not.
Page 706
MR. COOK: If I could have
just a moment, if Your Honor please.
(Brief pause.)
Q And you -- even after you killed him and
after you brutally murdered him, you went back and lied to the person that you
worked for at the Cahaba barbecue place, and told them that you were
visiting a sick child?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And you don't have any problem -- and
that was a lie. And that was
a lie, wasn't it?
A Talking about the part I told my employer I
was gone to see sick children?
Q Yeah.
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q And you did that because it was to your
advantage, that you figured it would help you?
A No, sir.
I did that for the fact that I didn't think anybody had any business
knowing I had been to Huntsville, Alabama.
Q But it was a lie and you did it because you
wanted to lie. And then you lied about you were drawing workers' compensation,
and you lied about that, and you went back to work and you said it was
Page 707
your lawyer that told you to
do it?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q You did not what?
A I did not say my lawyer told me to go back
to work. I said my lawyer told me to
hold off because he was trying to get disability for me.
Q And you went back to work?
A After the courts, and I got turned down for
my disability, I went back to work.
Q You lied about that, didn't you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Lied to your lawyer, didn't you? Lied to
everybody?
A Lied to my lawyer about what, sir?
Q Well, what did you lie to him about?
A As far as I know I didn't lie to my lawyer
about nothing. He asked me if I had
been working while I was drawing workmen's comp. , and I was
honest with him and told
him, yes, sir, I was.
Q So you were working while you were
drawing workers'
compensation?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you weren't entitled to draw it, were
you, while you were working?
Page 708
A Well, I was entitled, yes, sir.
Q You had sex with Mrs. Lowe up in the
bedroom, you say in her bedroom; is that right?
A Yes , sir.
Q And that would have been when?
A May 15th.
Q May the 15th. And that would have been
on a Friday?
A Yes, sir.
Q On a Friday. And that was the only time. And you have
described the underwear that she had on.
Didn't you describe the underwear that she had on?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q Any other descriptions that you can give
that might help us identify her?
A No, sir, there is not.
Q No marks?
A No, sir.
Q Moles?
A If there were any, I don't remember them,
sir.
Q Well, you could see all right, can't you?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Page 709
Q And you know of no identifying remarks.
In fact, they kept on trying
to get you to give them some identifying remarks, according to the information
I have here; isn't that right?
A They asked me if I knew of any
identifying marks.
Q And you didn't know of any and you couldn't
-- and you were afraid to make up any because you had never seen any; right?
A I never seen none, you are right.
Q If she had had a scar from here to here,
you could have seen it, couldn't you? There is nothing wrong with you? Were you
doped up?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q You could have seen it, couldn't you?
A Yes, sir, I guess I could have.
Q But you didn't see it?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Who is Jack Wilson, Jr.?
A I have no idea, sir.
Q Well, you called Jack Wilson, Jr., in
Birmingham on May the 18th from your telephone. Do you know who that is?
A No, sir, I have got no idea who that
Page 710
could possibly be.
Q Well, on May 18th were you doped up?
A I can't remember making a phone call to
anyone.
Q Did you have a beard on when you were at
Guntersville State Park?
A I think so, sir. I'm not for sure.
Q Did you have a beard on when you were
here on the 21st or 22nd?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Tell the Court how many mental
institutions you have been in.
A I have been in six or seven.
Q Tell us what they are.
A What do you mean by telling you what they
are?
Q Where they are. Where are they located?
A I was in one in Augusta, Georgia, in one
in Atlanta.
Q You broke out over there, didn't you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Where is the one that you broke out with
the knife?
A That was in Atlanta.
Page 711
Q That was in Atlanta. Was that the VA hospital?
A Yes, sir, it was.
Q And tell us how you broke out. You were
locked up, weren't you? Where you probably should have been kept.
A Yes, sir.
Q You were locked up?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you broke out?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And hit the street running. Just like
you did when you left
Alabama; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what were you in there for?
A I had a nervous condition and I had tried
to commit suicide.
Q But you were unsuccessful?
A Yes, sir.
Q Every time you attempted it you were
unsuccessful?
A Yes, sir.
Q What other institutions have you been in
other than the one in Atlanta?
Page 712
A The one in Augusta, Georgia.
Q And Augusta. And where else?
A Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Q Where else?
A The one in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Q Anywhere else?
A No, sir.
Q What is Lynwood?
A It's the VA hospital in Augusta, Georgia.
Q And that's the Lynwood facility in
Augusta?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you ever hear any voices?
A No, sir.
Q Have you ever heard any voices --
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q -- that you didn't know what they were
saying? You can hear what I'm saying, can't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q Have you been hearing any voices other than
mine in here?
A No, sir.
Q In August of 1991, when you said you
became acquainted with and you started
what you
Page 713
have described as a love
affair with Peggy Lowe,
you were having
hallucinatory visions then, weren't you?
A No, sir, I was not.
Q You were seeing things that weren't there
and hearing things and not knowing what you heard; isn't that correct?
A No, sir.
MR. COOK: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Sure.
Q These are your records dated August l1th,
‘91. Your official records. And it says, states that you are constantly hearing voices. Doesn't know
what they are saying. Do you
read that?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Is that what you told them or did they
just put it down wrong?
A That's what I told them at the time I
went to the hospital.
Q Well, was that a lie, were you lying to
the doctors?
A No, sir, I was not lying at that time.
Q Was that the truth?
Page 714
A At that time, yes, sir, it was.
Q You were hearing voices in August of 1991
when you met Mrs. Lowe and when you say this affair commenced. Do you know what
they were saying, the voices?
A When I met Mrs. Lowe I was not hearing
voices.
Q What?
A When I met Mrs. Lowe I was not hearing
voices.
Q Well, when did you meet her? You said
you met her in August of ‘91.
This is August of
‘91,
August the 11th. And you left here and refused to take treatment, didn't you?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q And they told you that you were not only
a danger to yourself but you
were a danger to the public, didn't they?
A No, sir, they did not.
Q Didn't they say you had psychotic features?
A They didn't tell me that.
Q You see that?
A They didn't tell me that.
Page 715
Q Were you seeing things, were things jumping
up that you were looking at that weren't supposed to be there?
A At the time my wife left me, yes, sir, I did
see things.
Q Well, all of your wives, all four of
them, it was their fault,
because all of them were running around, weren't they?
A No, sir, not all of them.
Q Isn't that what you told us earlier, that
all of them were?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Do you remember --
MR. COOK: May I approach the
witness
from time to time?
THE
COURT: You may.
Q Do you remember here -- these are your
official hospital records to where, even in 1986, they said that you were
homicidal. What does that mean?
A That means, I guess, the ability to kill.
Q Yeah.
Not only the ability but the
inclination to kill; right.
A Well, they never did discuss that with
Page 716
me.
Q Never
discussed it with you?
A No, sir.
Q You were homicidal
and paranoid; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you broke out when you were homicidal
and paranoid, didn't you?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q Said you had been taking organic solvents
for many years. Do you know what organic solvents are?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q Says the only drug-free period was for
eight months in 1981 and ‘82 when he was in prison. Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q So the only time you were ever off of any
of them, and this was in ‘86, was while you were in prison; right?
A At that point, yes, sir.
Q At that point. Up until ‘86; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Says you have extreme emotional
irritability and great difficulty controlling your
Page 717
anger. Was that right?
A No, sir, it's not.
Q That's not right? I say, that's not right?
A No, sir, it's not.
Q Describes you as an acutely disturbed
individual, who is amplifying his problems and symptoms, multiple
symptoms. Was that right?
A If they say so, I guess so.
Q You will go along with that?
A Well, like I said, in the VA hospitals
the doctors very seldom
discuss your problems with you, they mostly just give you pills.
Q You said you didn't know why you were
placed on the Librium -- or Lithium.
Did anyone ever tell you?
A I was told I was placed on Lithium
because it was supposed to
equal the balance out
for me getting into a high
strung-out position down to a low manic-depressive state.
Q In April of 1989, did anything significant
happen then, that you can recall, with reference to hospitalization or any
psychological evaluation?
Page 718
A Not to my memory, no, sir.
Q Don't you remember that that's about the
time that you sexually molested your daughter?
A No,
sir.
Q You deny that?
A Yes, sir.
Q This is from the psychological evaluation
report, Meredith, Bair, Peacock & Pelham, doctors
in Birmingham, Alabama, 300
Vestavia Office Park, which says -- read this.
"Tara Maria White, and her father, James D. Howell --“ that's your daughter?
A No, sir -- Tara Maria White, yes, sir.
Q Yeah.
A But that's --
Q You started to lie about that, didn't
you?
A No, sir.
You were pointing at that name there, and that's not my name, that's my
stepdaddy's
name.
Q What?
A That's my stepdaddy's
name, James D. Howell. Howell is my stepdaddy's name.
Q But that was your name, James D. Howell,
and you changed it?
Page 719
A That's the way the VA carries me, yes,
sir.
Q "And stepmother, Cheryl Howell, were
referred to psychological evaluation by Bill Lane." Listen to this. "Recently Mr. Howell reported to Mr.
Lane that he engaged in sexually abusive behavior with his daughter while under
the influence of alcohol." Is
that you? -
A That's me, but, like I said, I don't
remember that.
Q They have just got you down wrong?
A I'm not saying they got me down
wrong. I do suffer from an alcohol and drug problem.
Q You just don't remember that, do you?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q You just sort of had a blackout at that
time. And over here in the same evaluation, it
says -- and I'm just
skipping around, just picking out a few little things.
A Yes, sir.
Q It says here, "He," referring to
you, "states he had adjustment problems during high school which he now
sees as having a lot of anger with his mother, which he was taking out on
female
Page 720
teachers." You remember
that?
A I don't remember making that statement.
Q That you didn't like your women teachers?
A No. sir.
Q You don't remember anything about that,
nothing comes back to you?
A I mean, I had problems with my classes when
I was in school, all my classes.
Q "He has been charged on two occasions
for grand theft auto and has one charge of sodomy while incarcerated." I
bet you have forgotten about
that, too, haven't you?
A No, sir, I have not.
Q You haven't forgotten that?
A No, sir.
Q You remember writing a letter to your
stepfather's wife and inviting her to have sexual relations with you since your
stepfather had become too old? Do you remember that? Was that just something
you did in jest, just as sort of a little joke?
A I did not write her and ask her to have
sexual relationships with me. I just
told her I would have to show her a good time, because my
Page 721
stepdaddy
got too old.
Q And you sort of did that as a fun thing,
didn't you?
A No, sir, I was trying to get back at my
stepdad.
Q Trying to get back with your stepdaddy
and
that was your way?
A To get back at him.
Q To get back at him. Just sort of pay him
back?
A Yes, sir.
Q Here you are telling them -- now, this is
in ‘87, you are telling the doctors that you
stabbed
a Marine with a fork.
A I was told that I
had grabbed a fork and tried to stab one.
The stabbing was never told to me, that it was completed.
Q You were on a work release program one
time, weren't you?
A Yes, sir, I was.
Q And you ran away from that, didn't you?
A It wasn't work release, I was in the rehab
center.
Q And you ran away from that, didn't you?
Page 722
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q You have run away from everything, haven't
you? You ran away before sentencing, you
had to be brought back after
you had been arrested for kidnapping and robbery. And you were on a work
release or rehabilitation program, and you ran away from that. You have been
running all your life,
haven't you?
A No, sir, I haven't.
Q Says here, and I'm looking -- and if you
want to see this, August of
1983, says, "The
veteran indicated that he
had drunk from about a
half to a case of beer per
day. He often does mix a pint of whiskey, but generally stays away from whiskey
because he claims it makes him severely violent."
A I don't remember making that statement, no,
sir.
Q "As noted above, the veteran admits to
violent and suicidal behavior associated with drinking. The veteran appears to be angry and bitter in
general at the world and blaming others and the government on his drinking and
drug abuse problems." Is that a fair statement?
Page 723
A Yes, sir, it is.
Q So you blame it -- you are angry and
bitter in general at the world and you do blame others and the government on
your problems?
A In a roundabout way, yes, sir.
Q Yeah. All right. You have taken numbers of drugs
intravenously?
A Yes, sir, I have.
Q With an IV?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what were those drugs?
A I have mainlined acid, I have mainlined
cocaine and I have mainlined amphetamines.
Q You have an antisocial personality
disorder. Do you know what that is?
A No, sir.
Q You have violent behavior, do you deny
that?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q And this report says here -- and I want
you to see if I read it right. This is
one that was June 12, 1987, by a medical doctor, Dr. Raymond Crittendon. "He
is likely to fantasize and daydreams extensively. He is likely to be seen as
Page 724
rebellious, resentful and
nonconforming. He is
also likely to have
conflicts with society and authority figures.
There was no suggestion of
PTSD, post-traumatic
syndrome –“
A Yes, sir, I understand that. These
statements were never discussed with me.
I
remember Dr. Crittendon, but --
Q Pretty nice fellow, wasn't he, pretty
knowledgeable sort of guy?
A Like I said, I didn't know him. I met him
but I really didn't know him.
Q Do you remember this -- and this is by
Dr. Dodd, Henry Dodd. "This veteran may probably project blame
and hostility and is likely to be
seen as rigid, stubborn,
troubling, difficult, and overly sensitive.
He may chronically misinterpret the words and actions of
others." What does it mean to you
to misinterpret?
A To misunderstand.
Q To misunderstand what people say or what
they mean; right?
A Yes, sir.
Q When we attempted to get the records at Brookwood, that I read to you earlier and that I
Page 725
referred to you, earlier,
you tried to keep us from not getting those records, didn't you? Did you know
that your lawyer filed an objection?
MR. FRY: Your Honor, I
object to that. If his lawyer filed some objection that he wasn't responsible
for. I think this is improper
questioning, unless he has some basis of even knowing about it.
MR.
COOK: Well, if he knows about it.
Obviously, if he doesn't know about it, he can say he doesn't know about it.
THE
COURT: overruled.
A No, sir, I did not.
Q You did not what?
A I did not know my lawyer had filed a
motion.
Q So you did not know about it and have no
knowledge of what I'm talking about
now?
A No, sir, I do not.
Q Okay.
MR. COOK: If I could have just a moment to talk to my co-counsel.
(Brief pause.)
MR.
COOK: If Your Honor please, if I
Page 726
could have a few minutes, I
think I could speed this thing up a little bit.
THE COURT: All right. We
will take a recess, ladies and gentlemen.
Please go into the Jury room.
(Whereupon, proceedings were
in recess at 3:50 p.m., until 4:05 p.m., at which time the following occurred:)
THE COURT: Are you ready, Mr. Cook?
MR.
COOK: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right.
Bring the jury
out.
(Brief
pause.)
THE COURT: Mr. Cook, are you ready?
MR. COOK: Yes, Your
Honor. For planning purposes, I can
inform the Court I'm about through.
I have just a few more
questions and then I'll be through with cross-examination.
CONTINUATION
OF CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY
MR. COOK:
Q Mr. White, you have stated under oath
today, just a few moments ago, that Mrs. Lowe sent you some letters?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Page 727
Q And that you destroyed them?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q On May 29th of 1992, you gave a tape
recording to the law enforcement
officers of
Madison County, in which you
were asked that identical question by Mr. Brantley. And he said, "Okay. Did she ever send you any letters?" And
you said, "No, sir.”
A Yes, sir, I
probably made that statement.
Q Well, if you made
that statement it was a
lie, wasn't it?
A Probably, sir.
Q Well, it wasn't probably a lie, it was a
lie, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right.
You said that you called Mrs. Wilson
from -- what did you say, did you call her from the mall or was it from
somewhere else?
A I called Mrs. Lowe from the shopping center
over by Winn Dixie.
Q By Winn Dixie. Was that the mall?
A No, sir, it's not Parkway City Mall.
Q Well, what about -- did you call someone
from the Parkway City Mall?
Page 728
A No, sir, I did not.
Q You didn't?
A No. sir, I didn't.
Q What about where you testified on May,
where you said on May 27th, on page 11,
the question was, "Did you call her
from the pay phone at the
mall?" And you replied, "Yes, sir.”
A I
also changed the statement and told
them I could not find a pay
phone nowhere in the mall.
Q Did you say -- the question was, "Did
you call her from the pay phone at the mall?" And you said, "Yes,
sir.” That was false, wasn't it?
A Yes, sir, it was.
MR. COOK: We could go on and
on and on, but I believe that's about all, Mr. White.
THE COURT: Mr. Fry?
MR.
FRY: Nothing further, Your Honor.
MR.
DRAKE: Judge, we have some motions
to make. I just wanted to alert you to that.
THE COURT: This witness can be carried back.
MR. COOK: If Your Honor please, if I
may, I'll offer in evidence
at this time
Page 729
Defendant' s Exhibits 16,
17, 18, 19, 20, 21 , and
22.
THE COURT: Which ones are those?
MR. COOK: 16 through
21 are copies of
the statements by Mr. White.
THE COURT: Mr. Fry?
MR. COOK: And Defendant's Exhibit 22
is --
THE COURT: I didn't
think --
MR. FRY: I don't think
they were
offered.
THE
COURT: I didn't think they had been
identified or --
MR.
COOK: Defendant's Exhibit 22 are the
medical records.
(Brief pause.)
MR.
COOK: And those are the complete medical records that we have received. We
don't have them from Augusta. This is all we have.
THE COURT: 16 through 21?
MR.
COOK: 16 through 21 are the statements
and Defendant's Exhibit No. 22 are the records from the Veterans Administration
Hospital in Tuscaloosa, that are certified by the chief
Page 730
medical administration
service.
THE COURT: 16 through 22 are admitted?
MR. COOK: And I do not
remember whether
I introduced Defendant's
Exhibit 12 or not. I'll offer it,
too, the medical records from the Brookwood Medical
Center.
THE COURT: All right.
MR.
COOK: And I offer Defendant's
Exhibit No. 13.
THE
COURT: Any objection, Mr. Fry?
MR. FRY: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: 12 and 13
he has offered.
MR.
FRY: I have no objection.
THE COURT: 12 and 13 are both admitted. MR. FRY: Your
Honor, I'm not asking on
behalf of myself, but for
instructions for the Sheriff's Department, may this witness be transported back
to the Huntsville jail subject to being recalled? That's what the sheriffs have
agreed upon, he could be called back.
THE
COURT: He may. Call your next
witness.
MR.
FRY: Call Jennifer Wilson.
MR.
DRAKE: Judge, I have some motions to
Page 731
make at some point. I don't know when you wanted to do that.
THE COURT: I don't think it would be appropriate at this
time.
JENNIFER
WILSON
being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
BY MR. FRY:
Q Hi. Would you state your name, please,
ma'am.
A Jennifer Michelle Wilson.
Q Ms. Wilson, you have got a very nice,
soft voice. If you will, kind of maybe lean towards that
just a little bit so the lawyers can hear.
Where
are you from, Ms. Wilson?
A Huntsville, Alabama.
Q And what do you do there?
A I'm a student.
Q Where do you go to school?
A
Q What grade are you in?
A 12th.
Q Do you have a part-time job or some kind
Page 732